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RobinSteinberg_2019W-_“保释金项目”如何改革美国刑事司法制度_-
Manoush Zomorodi: So, Robin Steinberg, thank you so much for being my first official guest as the new host of TED Radio Hour. 马努什 · 佐莫罗迪（Manoush Zomorodi）: 罗宾 · 斯坦伯格（Robin Steinberg）, 谢谢您成为我第一个正式嘉宾, 参与我作为新加入主持的 TED Radio Hour。
Robin:知更鸟,罗宾(人名) official:adj.官方的;正式的;公务的;n.官员;公务员;高级职员;
I'm pretty psyched about that. 我对此还蛮激动的。
psyched:adj.兴奋;殷切期待;v.用精神分析治疗(psych的过去分词和过去式)
Robin Steinberg: I'm delighted . 罗宾 · 斯坦伯格: 这是我的荣幸。
delighted:adj.高兴的; v.使高兴; (delight的过去分词和过去式)
(Applause) （掌声）
MZ: So OK, I want to start with the Bail Project, how it came to be, how you came up with the idea. MZ:所以我想从“保释金项目” （Bail Project）开始, 它是如何诞生的？ 您是怎么想到这个点子的？
Bail:n.保释金;保释;v.允许保释(某人);离开;与…搭讪;
The story goes that 10 years ago, you and your husband were eating Chinese takeout food when you came up with the concept. 我听说这故事发生在 10 年前,你和丈夫一起 吃中餐外卖的时候, 想出了这个概念。
takeout:n.外卖;(桥牌中)示意搭档改叫的叫牌;adj.外卖的,供顾客带出外吃的;
You'd been a public defender for over 30 years, but there was this moment where you decided something had to change. 您成为公设辩护律师已经 30 余年, 但也就是那个时候, 您决定某些东西需要被改变。
public defender:n.(美国)公设辩护人;
RS: So we had both spent decades in the trenches of the criminal legal system as public defenders , fighting for each and every client the best we could, defending people's humanity and their dignity and fighting for their freedom. RS:我和我丈夫作为公设辩护律师 已经花了好几十年 在刑事法律制度的战场上, 竭尽全力去为每个客户辩护, 捍卫人类的人性与尊严, 并为他们的自由而战。
trenches:n.战壕(trench复数); v.挖战壕于…; legal:adj.法律的;合法的;法定的; defenders:n.后卫;防御者(defender的复数); client:n.[经]客户;顾客;委托人; humanity:n.人类;人道;仁慈;人文学科; dignity:n.尊严;高贵;
And no matter how good we were as lawyers, and I like to think we were really good, and how forceful we fought on behalf of a client, sometimes it all came down to a few hundred dollars. 不管我们作为律师的专业水平有多高, 而且我偏向认为 我们俩的专业技能很高, 不管我们代表客户 抗争得多么强劲有力, 有时只取决于几百美元。
forceful:adj.强有力的;有说服力的;坚强的; on behalf of:代表;为了;
And that was whether or not your client could pay bail and fight her case from freedom or whether she was going to be locked in jail on Rikers Island and desperate would wind up pleading guilty , whether she did it or not. 这没有考虑到我们客户 是否支付得起这笔保释金, 要么她可以保持自由之身 而进行辩护, 要么她就可能要被关在 赖克斯岛的狱中, 而绝望的人最后就会认罪, 不管她是否犯罪。
whether or not:是否…; jail:n.监狱;监牢;拘留所;v.监禁;下狱; desperate:adj.不顾一切的;令人绝望的;极度渴望的; pleading:n.恳求;答辩;辩论,诉状;adj.恳求的;v.辩护(plead的ing形式); guilty:adj.有罪的;内疚的;
And that just enraged us. 这种现象让我们很愤怒。
enraged:v.使异常愤怒;激怒;触怒;(enrage的过去分词和过去式)
And sometimes, you know, the answers are simple and they're right in front of you. 而且有时候, 答案很简单,它们就在你的面前。
And so we thought, "Well, what if we just paid clients ' bail?" 所以我们想: “如果我们为客户们支付保释金？”
what if:如果…怎么办? clients:n.委托人;当事人;客户机;(client的复数)
And that's where the idea of creating a revolving bail fund -- because bail comes back at the end of a case, if we could raise money and put it in a fund, and have a revolving fund, we could just pay bail for our clients. 这就是我们创建 循环保释基金的想法—— 因为保释金 在案件的最后会被退回, 如果我们可以为这个基金筹集资金, 创建一个循环基金, 我们就能为客户支付保释金。
revolving:adj.旋转的;v.旋转;环绕;转动;(revolve的现在分词) fund:n.基金;资金;存款;v.投资;资助;
Now I have to say, that was back in 2005. 我不得不说, 这个想法发生在 2005 年。
People weren’t talking about criminal justice reform the way they are now, there wasn't a lot of conversation about bail reform, and quite honestly, we spent two years knocking on people's door. 当时人们还未开始像今天这样 谈论刑事司法改革, 也没有什么关于保释改革的话题。 老实说,我们花了 2 年时间 敲了别人家的门,
justice:n.公平;公正;司法制度;审判; reform:v.改革;改进;改良;(使)悔改;n.改革;改良;改善;
Nobody answered. 没人回应。
Until one day, one man and his family, Jason Flom and his family, decided to take a chance on us and gave us a grant in 2007. 直到一天,一个人和他的家人, 杰森 · 弗洛姆（Jason Flom）和他的家人 决定给我们一个机会, 在 2007 年赞助了我们一笔钱。
take a chance on:冒险; grant:v.授予;允许;承认;同意;n.拨款;[法]授予物;
And we began to test the revolving bail fund model. 之后我们开始进行 循环保释基金的运作模型测试。
And to see what would happen. 想要看看什么会发生。
MZ: Can you clarify , though, like, why it is so important for someone not to be in jail while they await trial? MZ:你能详细解释一下 为什么在人们等待审讯的时候 不用待在监狱里是那么重要吗？
clarify:v.澄清;阐明;得到澄清;得到净化; await:v.等候;等待;期待;
You've explained this in the past and it really blew my mind, because I had no idea what could happen in those days or weeks before someone actually has to plead their case. 你过去已经解释过了, 这真的让我很震惊, 因为我完全不知道 在那个人等待正式案件辩护的 那几天或那几周, 有什么事情会发生。
RS: Sure. So, being held in jail even for a few days can change the trajectory of your life. RS:当然。即使只是在监狱几天 就能改变你的整个生活轨迹。
trajectory:n.[物]轨道,轨线;[航][军]弹道;
It is not only the place where you can be victimized , sexually , you can be exposed to violence , you'll be traumatized in all sorts of ways while you're in the jail, and that's even the first few days or a week 监狱里你不仅可能受到性侵害, 你可能被暴力威胁, 当你在监狱的时候, 你将会遭受各种形式的创伤, 甚至在监狱的头几天或第一周
victimized:vt.使受害;使牺牲;欺骗; sexually:adv.性,性欲 exposed:adj.无遮蔽的; v.暴露; (expose的过去分词和过去式) violence:n.暴力;侵犯;激烈;歪曲; traumatized:adj.心理受到创伤的;v.使受创伤(traumatize的过去式和过去分词);
is when most jail deaths actually, whether they're suicides or homicides , actually happen. 往往是是监狱死亡,不论自杀或凶杀, 最频发的时候。
suicides:n.自杀;自毁;自杀者;(suicide的复数) homicides:n.杀人;杀人犯;
But while you're sitting in jail, and understand, folks sitting in jail pretrial have not been convicted of a crime. 当你被关在监狱里的时候, 这里你要了解 坐在监狱预审阶段的人们 没有未被定罪。
pretrial:n.事先审理;adj.审判前的; convicted:v.定罪;宣判…有罪;(convict的过去式和过去分词)
They're there because they don't have enough money to pay bail. 他们蹲监狱的原因是 他们没钱付保释金。
And while that's happening, people's lives are falling apart outside. 当这种情况发生时, 人们在监狱外的生活分崩离析。
You're losing your job, you might be losing your home, your children might be taken from you, your immigration status might be jeopardized , you might get thrown out of school. 你会丢了工作, 你可能会失去房子, 你的孩子可能被强制带走, 你的移民身份或许会不保, 我们当地的监狱 就存在着如此的破坏性,
immigration:n.外来移民;移居; status:n.地位;状态;情形;重要身份; jeopardized:v.冒…的危险;危及;危害;损害;(jeopardize的过去式和过去分词)
So it's the damage to you that's happening in our local jails , but it's also what's happening to you and your family and your community that you've been removed from while you're waiting for your trial, which, by the way , can take days, weeks and no exaggeration , can take years. 而且这种破坏性 也发生在你和你的家庭中, 以及你因为等待审讯 顺便说一句,等待期可能是 几天、几周,不夸张说甚至几年。
jails:n.监狱;监牢;拘留所;vt.监禁;下狱; community:n.社区;[生态]群落;共同体;团体; by the way:顺便说一下; exaggeration:n.夸张;夸大之词;夸张的手法;
MZ: So you explained this sort of crazy limbo that people are in from the TED stage in 2018, and I want to just play a quick clip from that talk that you gave, which was incredibly moving. MZ:您之前在 2018 年 TED 舞台上 解释了这些人所处的疯狂境地。 我想播放您之前演讲的 一段简短且极其感人的视频片段。
limbo:n.监狱;地狱的边境;放置丢弃物的场所;处于中间的或不定的状态; clip:v.剪辑;修剪;削减;固定;n.夹;夹子;速度;钳; incredibly:adv.难以置信地;非常地;
Can we play that? 可以播放一下吗？
(Audio: Robin Steinberg TED2018) It's time to do something big. （音频:罗宾 · 斯坦伯格 TED 2018） 是时候做些大事了。
It's time to do something bold . 是时候做些冒险之事了。
bold:adj.大胆的,英勇的;黑体的;厚颜无耻的;险峻的;
It's time to do something ... maybe audacious ? 是时候做些……或许大胆之事？
audacious:adj.无畏的;鲁莽的;
(Laughter) （笑声）
We want to take our proven revolving bail-fund model that we built in the Bronx and spread it across America, attacking the front-end of the legal system before incarceration begins. 我们想要使用 在布朗克斯区建立, 并应用于整个美国的 经过验证的循环保释基金模型 在监禁开始前, 就开始对前端法律系统进行攻击。
Bronx:n.布朗克斯(纽约市最北端的一区);布朗克斯鸡尾酒; front-end:adj.前端的; incarceration:n.监禁;下狱;禁闭;
(Applause) （掌声）
MZ: The energy in the room when you gave your talk was palpable , and it ended up getting you quite a bit of funding from the Audacious Project, which is TED's initiative to get some of these big ideas support to make them actually happen. MZ:在您演讲的时候, 场内的气氛能量是显而易见的, 这让您从“大胆计划” 获得了一些资金支持, 这是 TED 启动的项目—— 让这些大胆的想法获得支持, 并让这些想法在现实落地。
palpable:adj.明显的;可感知的;易觉察的; funding:n.基金;资金;提供资金;v.为…提供资金;拨款给;(fund的现在分词) initiative:n.倡议;主动性;积极性;主动权;adj.起始的;
Can you explain what has happened since you gave your talk? 您能说说在您的演讲后 都发生了什么吗？
RS: Sure. RS:当然。
So, the Audacious grant allowed us to take our proven concept and to scale it. “大胆计划”的资金让我们 能采用经验证的概念并使其规模化。
scale:n.规模;比例;鳞;刻度;天平;数值范围;v.衡量;攀登;剥落;生水垢;
And the idea is that we are scaling this model across the country. 我们想要将此基金模型 扩大至全国范围使用。
scaling:n.缩放比例; v.剥落;
We're currently in 18 different sites . 我们现在有 18 个不同的试点。
currently:adv.当前;一般地; sites:n.网站(site的复数);遗址,举办地点;v.使...位于(site的单三形式);
And we are doing two things, right? 我们在做两件事,对吧？
The Bail Project is designed both, provide an immediate lifeline for folks that are stuck in jail cells simply because of poverty , because they can't pay their bail, “保释金项目”的设计目的 一是为仅仅因为贫困、 因为无法支付保释金 而被困在监狱的人们 提供及时的救命稻草,
lifeline:n.生命线;救生索; poverty:n.贫困;困难;缺少;低劣;
and that's a response to the immediate direct emergency and human rights crisis that we have in this country around pretrial incarceration. 这是我们对于在这个国家之中 围绕预审监禁导致的紧急情况 以及人权危机 的及时回应。
response:n.响应;反应;回答; emergency:n.紧急情况;突发事件;非常时刻;adj.紧急的;备用的; crisis:n.危机;危险期;决定性时刻;adj.危机的;用于处理危机的;
But the second thing we're trying to do is we're testing a model that we call community release with voluntary supports. 二是,我们正在尝试测试一个 我们称之为 由志愿支持的社区释放模型。
release:v.释放;发射;让与;允许发表;n.释放;发布;让与; voluntary:adj.自愿的;志愿的;自发的;故意的;n.志愿者;自愿行动;
And what we're trying to prove is, 我们在尝试证明的是:
A: you don't need cash bail, people will come back to court without cash bail. 你不需要现金保释, 在没有现金保释的情况下, 人们仍会回来庭审。
That myth has already been debunked and we know that. 这一问题已经被我们识破, 而且我们明确知道。
myth:n.神话;虚构的人,虚构的事; debunked:v.批判;驳斥;揭穿…的真相;(debunk的过去分词和过去式)
But we're also trying to model you can actually release people back to their communities with effective court notifications . 我们也在尝试另一个模型—— 通过一个有效的法律通知, 你其实可以将人们释放回社区。
communities:n.社区;社会;团体;共有(community的复数) effective:adj.有效的,起作用的;实际的,实在的;给人深刻印象; notifications:n.通知; (notification的复数)
Make sure they're connected to services they might need. 确保他们 能获取可能所需的服务。
And people will come back to court while their cases are open, and until those cases close. 之后在开庭的时候, 他们仍会回到法庭庭审, 直到结案。
It is in an effort to move policy forward, to ensure the systemic change happens, but here's our fear: it's a race against time . 这是推进政策的一个努力, 来确保系统性改变的发生, 但我们也有担忧: 这是和时间在赛跑。
policy:n.政策,方针;保险单; ensure:vt.保证,确保;使安全; systemic:adj.系统的;全身的;体系的; race against time:与时间赛跑;争分夺秒;和时间赛跑;
Because as this conversation picks up speed, and as bail reform begins to take hold, some systems will move to new systems that we fear will recreate some of the same harms, right, that the initial bail system [created]. 随着这场主题对话的加速, 以及保释金改革的开始, 有些系统将会被新系统替代, 而我们担心这些新系统会 再次造成同样的伤害, 就如最初的保释金体系构成的伤害。
recreate:vt.再现;再创造 initial:adj.最初的; n.(名字的)首字母; v.用姓名的首字母作标记(或签名)于;
Those are racial disparities , economic inequality, and we can actually recreate that if we don't get this right. 那些伤害是种族差异 和经济条件不平等, 而且我们若没能处理好这些, 我们真的可以重构伤害。
racial:adj.种族的;人种的; disparities:不一致(disparity的复数); economic:adj.经济的,经济上的;经济学的;
And so we're in a race against time to prove that you can do a community-based model that doesn't require electronic monitoring or risk algorithms or jail cells or cash bail, but that you can simply release people to communities with supports. 所以我们在与时间赛跑, 来证明我们提出的 一个基于社区的模型—— 不要求电子监控、 风险算法、监狱牢房, 或是现金保释, 你只要简单地将人们释放回社区 并给予支持——
community-based:adj.社区的;以社区为基础的; electronic:adj.电子的;电子器件的;电子设备的;
And that will work. 就能成功。
MZ: I want to come back to that in a minute, but before we do that, my background is as a tech journalist , and when you talk about scaling a program like this, MZ:我想要马上回到这个话题, 但在这之前, 而当你谈到规模化这样的一个项目时,
journalist:n.新闻工作者;报人;记日志者;
I can only assume that you are facing completely different challenges than, say, a founder of an app or a platform or something like that. 比如和一个应用程序或是 一个平台创始人的挑战不同。
assume:v.承担;假定;采取;呈现; founder:vi.失败;沉没;倒塌;变跛;vt.破坏;使摔倒;垮掉;n.创始人;建立者;翻沙工; platform:n.平台; v.把…放在台上[放在高处;
What are the challenges? 你面临的挑战是什么？
I mean, you're going to states with different laws, each city must be so completely different. 我意思说,我要把这个项目 带到使用不同法律的各个州, 每座城市想必都极其不一样。
How do you do it? 你打算怎么做？
RS: So you know, scaling the revolving bail fund itself, that's been the easy, elegant solution , right? RS:把循环保释基金本身规模化 是一项简单且完美的解决方案,对吧？
elegant:adj.高雅的,优雅的;讲究的;简炼的;简洁的; solution:n.解决方案;溶液;溶解;解答;
That's the easy part, that's direct service part, we can scale that across the country. 这是简单的部分, 直接提供服务就行, 因此我们能够规模化至全国范围。
The ground game, the teams that work as bail disruptors for the Bail Project at different locations across the country, they have to take our model and adapt it to the unique needs of each jurisdiction . 各地的工作, 分布在全国不同地点的 为“保释金项目”而工作的 保释团队, 他们需要使用我们的模型, 并将其调整以适应于 每个司法管辖区的独特需求。
disruptors:n.破坏者,分裂者; locations:n.地方;地点;位置;定位(location的复数) adapt:vt.使适应;改编;vi.适应; unique:adj.独特的,稀罕的;[数]唯一的;n.独一无二的人或物; jurisdiction:n.司法权,审判权,管辖权;权限,权力;
And that's where it becomes complex , and it's very resource intensive , because criminal justice is incredibly local, and so how each system operates is unique. 这就是复杂的地方, 而且这是一项非常资源密集的工作, 因为刑事司法极其具有地方性, 所以每个系统的运作都有其独特性。
complex:adj.复杂的;合成的;n.复合体;综合设施; resource:n.资源;资料;才智;财力;v.向…提供资金(或设备); intensive:adj.加强的;集中的;透彻的;加强语气的;n.加强器;
And what the needs of our clients are are incredibly different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. 我们客户的需求 因司法管辖区的不同而极其不同。
So you can be in Oklahoma and what you know is that communities have been ravaged by the opioid crisis, and when we're bringing people home, we have to connect them to services that might address that. 你可以在俄克拉何马州, 你知道的是 社区中阿片类药物危机肆虐, 当我们把人们带回家, 我们必须将他们与 可能解决那些问题的服务联系起来。
Oklahoma:n.美国俄克拉荷马州; ravaged:v.毁坏;损坏;严重损害;(ravage的过去分词和过去式) opioid:n.[生化]阿片样物质;类鸦片;
When you're in Spokane , you're talking about an epidemic of homelessness . 当你在斯波坎市, 大家都在谈论流浪汉的泛滥。
Spokane:n.斯波坎市(美国华盛顿州); epidemic:n.流行病;蔓延;adj.传染病;流行性的; homelessness:n.无家可归;
So when you're thinking about providing direct services and bringing people home, you have to be mindful of the fact that in that jurisdiction that may be the biggest obstacle for people, is that they don't have shelter. 所以当你在思考提供直接的服务 并把人们带回家的时候, 你必须时刻记住 这一司法管辖区的现实, 那些人面对的最大问题 可能就是无家可归。
mindful:adj.留心的;记住的;警觉的; obstacle:n.障碍;障碍物;阻碍;绊脚石;
And so we need to adapt our model in every jurisdiction we go to to address the needs of that community. 所以每个我们去到的司法管辖区, 我们都需要调整我们的模型 来解决那个社区的需求。
MZ: I could only assume that some of these communities are not so happy that you're there. MZ:我只能假设有些社区 对你的出现并不是很开心。
That must be a reality of it. 这一定是现实。
Do you have to win hearts and minds as well, in some of these places? 在你去到的有些社区中, 你也需要赢取人心吗？
RS: So I think it depends on the definition of community. RS:我认为这取决于对社区的定义。
definition:n.定义;清晰度;(尤指词典里的词或短语的)释义;解释;
So communities that have been targeted by our criminal legal system for generations, communities of color, low-income communities, marginalized communities, women across the country, they are more than happy to see us come, because we are just an immediate lifeline. 那些世代被我们刑事法律制度 针对的社区, 有色及低收入社区, 边缘化的社区, 还有全国的女性, 他们非常庆幸我们的到来, 因为我们是一根及时的救命稻草。
marginalized:使边缘化;忽略;排斥(marginalize的过去式和过去分词);
Bail funds are a tool to get people out as an immediate lifeline, it's not a long-term , systemic answer, right? 保释基金是一种工具, 作为救命线,将人们从监狱中救出来, 这不是一个长久的系统性答案,是吧？
funds:n.[会计]资金,现金(fund的复数);基金;v.资助(fund的三单形式);提供资金; long-term:adj.长期的;从长远来看;
But people are, of course, they want to get out, go back to their families, their communities want them home. 但对于人们来说,当然, 他们不想呆在监狱里, 他们想要回到家人身边, 他们的社区希望他们回家。
Has there been some opposition ? 我们有遇到过反对吗？
opposition:n.反对党;对立;在野党;对抗;
Sure, of course. 当然有。
You know, when we go into a new site, we do so carefully, we prospect it carefully, we try to understand who are our partners on the ground that might help us in this initiative, 当我们去到一个新地方, 我们会谨慎地进行, 小心地展望每一步, 我们尝试理解 谁是在这项计划中能帮助我们的 实地合作伙伴,
prospect:n.展望;前景;希望;前途;v.勘探;探矿;
grassroots organizers , not-for-profit organizations , systems holders , sheriffs , right? 比如基层组织者、非营利组织、 体系控制人以及郡县治安官,对吧？
grassroots:adj.基层的;草根的;乡村的;n.草根;基础; organizers:n.主办单位,组织者(organizer的复数形式); not-for-profit:adj.非营利的;无利可图的; organizations:n.组织,构造,有机体(organization的复数);组织机构; holders:n.[专利]持有人(holder的复数); sheriffs:n.州长;郡治安官;执行吏;
Who is going to support us and who our opposition might be. 谁将会支持我们, 谁可能会是我们的反对者。
MZ: You also put some of the people that you bail out, you bring them back, right, as program officers. MZ:你也将你保释出来的人 带回了项目,对吧, 作为项目官员。
Is that part of the system that you're trying to make a community around your efforts in some way? 这是你们体系的一部分吗？ 换言之,您是否正在尝试 以某种方式围绕您的努力创建一个社区？
RS: So when we're hiring for local jurisdictions , we always hire locally . RS:当我们为 当地司法管辖区做招聘工作时, 我们通常招本地人。
jurisdictions:n.司法管辖区;行政辖区(jurisdiction的复数); locally:adv.在本地;局部地;在地方上;
If we open a site in Baton Rouge , we hire people from Baton Rouge and are connected to the community. 如果我们在巴吞鲁日开设工作点, 我们雇佣在巴吞鲁日 有社区联系的当地人。
Baton:n.(乐队)指挥棒;(接力赛的)接力棒; Rouge:n.胭脂; v.擦口红; adj.(罕)红的(只用于:R-Croix(英国)纹章局四属官之一;
We try to prioritize people with lived experience in the criminal legal system, or people who have been personally impacted by the system. 我们尝试优先考虑那些 或是亲临体验过 刑事法律制度影响的人。
prioritize:v.按重要性排列;划分优先顺序;优先处理; personally:adv.个人;亲自;本人;就本人而言; impacted:adj.压紧的;结实的;嵌入的;(人口)稠密的;v.装紧;挤满(impact的过去分词);
We think it's important, they understand the system best, they have the best solutions because they're closest to the problem and they're credible messengers for the clients that we're going to be interviewing and providing bail for. 我们认为这很重要, 他们对系统有着最好的理解, 他们能制定出最佳的解决方案, 因为他们处于问题的中心, 而且他们是客户可信任的信使,
credible:adj.可靠的,可信的; messengers:n.东京速递(电视剧); interviewing:v.对(某人)进行面试;(媒体)采访,访问;(interview的现在分词)
MZ: So you touched on this, criminal justice reform has become a hot topic, you must be like, "Yay, finally people are talking about this thing that I've been banging on about for decades." 现在刑事司法改革已成为热门话题, 你肯定是像这样: “真棒,终于大家都在讨论 我几十年来为之奋斗的事情了。”
finally:adv.终于;最终;(用于列举)最后;彻底地; banging:v.猛敲;砸;(把…)砰的关上;猛摔;砰地一扔;(bang的现在分词)
Here in California actually, though, there has been a big change. 实际上在加利福尼亚, 已经发生了很大的变化。
Now it's complicated , but my understanding is that they're getting rid of cash bail. 现在情况很复杂, 但我的理解是他们正在尝试 废除现金保释金制度。
complicated:adj.复杂的;难懂的;v.使复杂化;(complicate的过去分词和过去式)
Good thing, bad thing, not quite that simple to explain? 好处和坏处, 大概不是那么简单就能解释的？
RS: So everything about criminal justice reform, and particularly bail reform, is way more complex than it looks, right? RS:刑事司法改革的每一步, 尤其保释金制度改革, 实际都比看起来要复杂得多,对吧？
particularly:adv.特别地,独特地;详细地,具体地;明确地,细致地;
So it's easy to have a hashtag that says "end cash bail." 创建一个话题标签“废除现金保释金” 很容易。
hashtag:n.标签;
Totally right. 完全没错。
We have to eliminate unaffordable cash bail forever. 我们必须永远废除 承担不起的现金保释金。
eliminate:v.消除;排除; unaffordable:adj.买不起的;
We know money isn't what makes people come back, it's a myth, let's get rid of it. 我们知道让人回到庭审的不是金钱, 这种流言,我们要摆脱掉。
But the question about what comes next is very, very complex, and California was a good example. 但问题是在这之后, 下一步应该如何就非常非常复杂。 加利福尼亚是一个很好的例子。
There was a bill that worked its way through the political process , called SB 10. 有一项法案贯穿了整个政治进程, 叫做 SB 10 。
process:v.处理;加工;列队行进;n.过程,进行;方法,adj.经过特殊加工(或处理)的;
It started out as what looked like a bill that would actually move towards more decarceration. 它开始的时候看起来像是 一个会减少监禁的法案。
By the time it came out of the political process, frankly it was a bill that almost nobody in the community would support, including the Bail Project. 在这项法案出台实施后, 坦白说,这是一个 几乎没有人会支持, 包括“保释金项目”也不会支持的法案。
And it had gone through some changes in that process that placed, you know, pretrial services in the hands of law enforcement , that put people through risk algorithms, 在走整个流程的时候, 这条法案出现了些变化, 将预审交到了执法机构手中, 通过风险算法分析人,
in the hands of:由…掌握;在…掌握中; enforcement:n.执行,实施;强制;
that sort of had a lot of the telltale signs of a system that was going to recreate the same racial inequity and economic inequalities that we had always seen, 这种体系实际上有很多明显的特征—— 会重新形成同样的、 我们一直看到的
telltale:adj.报警的;泄密的;搬弄是非的;n.迹象;指示器;搬弄是非者; inequity:n.不公平,不公正; inequalities:n.[数]不等式;不均等,不平衡;不平坦(inequality的复数形式);
and so, that bill actually moved through the process, and we thought that was the end. 法案通过了, 而我们以为这就结束了。
But then the bail bond industry actually got 400,000 signatures to put it on the ballot . 之后,保释金行业收集了四十万个签名 希望针对这条法案进行投票。
signatures:n.签名;鲜明特征(signature的复数); ballot:n.投票;投票用纸;投票总数;vi.投票;抽签决定;vt.使投票表决;拉选票;
So in November, Californians will be voting on whether or not SB 10 should go forward or not. 所以在 11 月, 加利福尼亚人将会对 是否该继续 SB 10 法案 进行投票。
MZ: So Californians in the audience, you will be voting on this. MZ:观众席中的加利福尼亚人们, 你们马上就要对其进行投票了。
How should they vote? 他们该如何投票？
RS: So I'm not so bold as to say that. RS:我没有那么大勇气说。
I may be audacious, but I'm not that audacious. 我可能大胆, 但没有那么大胆。
But what I will say is, educate yourselves. 不过我会说的是 请自我教育,
Understand what you're voting on. 去了解你投票的到底是什么,
Understand what it means to hold somebody in jail who hasn't been convicted of a crime simply for their poverty, right? 了解把一个没有被定罪的人 只因为他们的贫穷 而强制关在监狱里意味着什么。
And ask yourselves, do we want to have a criminal legal system that incarcerates people before they've been convicted of a crime? 并且自问我们是否想要拥有一个 在人们被定罪前 就对他们进行监禁处理的 刑事法律制度？
incarcerates:v.禁闭;[医]钳闭;(incarcerates是incarcerate的第三人称单数)
Do we want to have a criminal legal system that continues to target communities of color and low-income communities across this country, do we want to continue the damage and the devastation that we have created through mass incarceration? 我们真的想要一个 在全国范围内 持续针对有色和低收入社区的 刑事法律制度吗？ 我们真的想要继续 因大规模监禁 而带来的破坏和灾难吗？
devastation:n.毁坏,荒废; mass:n.块,团; adj.群众的,民众的; v.聚集起来,聚集;
So I'm not taking position on which way you should vote, but take that into account. 所以我不是在说你应该怎么投票, 但是请把这些问题纳入考虑。
MZ: She told me backstage , "I'm not sure how I'm going to vote yet." MZ:她在后台告诉我: “我还不确定我要怎么投票。”
backstage:adv.在后台;向后台;
I mean, it's that difficult, right? 这真的很困难,对吧？
RS: Well, it's a little more complicated. RS:这就有一点复杂。
It's the form of SB 10 as it exists is not a bill that most of us would support, right? SB 10 法案的存在形式 并不是我们大多数人 都会支持的一条法案,对吧？
But eliminating cash bail is critical . 但是取消现金保释金至关重要。
eliminating:v.排除;清除;消除;淘汰;(eliminate的现在分词) critical:adj.鉴定的;[核]临界的;批评的,爱挑剔的;危险的;决定性的;评论的;
MZ: Alright, I want you to forecast into the future. MZ:好吧,我想要你展望未来。
forecast:n.预测;预报;v.预测;预报;
What does an ideal system look like? 一个理想的系统 看起来应该是怎样的？
You have said that America is addicted to incarceration. 你说过美国 非常喜欢监禁这个概念。
addicted:adj.上瘾的;上瘾;成瘾;有瘾;入迷;
Does there have to be a cultural shift around that in addition to making some of the changes that you're talking about? 除了要进行你正在谈论的 这些该改变之外, 是否还要进行文化转变？
cultural:adj.与文化有关的;文化的;与艺术、文学、音乐等有关的; shift:n.移动;变化;手段;轮班;v.移动;转变;转换; in addition to:除…之外;
RS: So, you know, we have to reckon with what we've done. RS:我们必须考虑我们已经做了什么。
reckon:v.认为;想;估计;计算;
If we don't face head-on how we've used our criminal legal system, and who we have targeted, and how we've defined crime, and how we punish people, we're never going to move forward. 如果我们无法直面 我们现今是如何使用 我们的刑事法律制度的, 我们针对了谁,我们如何定罪, 以及我们如何惩罚人们, 我们将永远不会进步。
head-on:adj.正面的;直接的;头朝前的;adv.迎头;头朝前地;正面针对地; defined:adj.有定义的,确定的; v.使明确;
So we are going to have to reckon with the harm that we've caused. 所以我们需要考虑到 我们已经造成的伤害,
And in so doing, we're going to have to shift our lens . 这么做后,我们将改变我们的视角。
lens:n.透镜,镜头;晶状体;隐形眼镜;汽车的灯玻璃;v.给…摄影;
And that's a real challenge for us, right? 这对我们是一项真正的挑战, 不是吗？
We're going to have to shift our lens from a system that's about punishment and cruelty and isolation and cages to a lens of, "What do you need, how can we support, where have we failed, how can we make that better, how can we restore and how can we heal ?" 我们将必须改变我们的视角—— 从一个惩罚、残忍、隔离, 以及牢笼的系统, 转变为 “你需要什么,我们可以怎么支持, 我们哪些地方做的不好, 我们可以怎么改善, 我们可以如何恢复并治愈？”
punishment:n.惩罚;严厉对待,虐待; cruelty:n.残酷;残忍;残酷的行为; restore:v.恢复;修复;恢复(某种情况或感受);使复原; heal:v.复原;治疗(病人);使又愉快起来;(使)结束
And if we aren't willing to do that, criminal justice reform is going to be stalled , or what comes next is going to be really problematic . 如果我们不愿意这么做, 刑事法律改革将会停滞不前, 或即将到来的改革 将带来更多问题。
stalled:失速的; problematic:adj.问题的;有疑问的;不确定的;
It is a fundamental shift in the way that we see our criminal justice system. 这是我们如何看待刑事司法制度方式的 根本转变。
fundamental:n.基础; adj.十分重大的; in the way:妨碍;挡道;
And make no mistake about it, the context of our criminal legal system is we have turned our back on social problems, right? 而且毫无疑问, 我们刑事法律的制度背景 已经忽视了那些社会问题,对吧？
context:n.环境;上下文;来龙去脉;
So we have turned our backs on homelessness and dire poverty and structural racism and mental health challenges and addiction and even immigration status. 我们忽视了了流浪汉、 可怕的贫穷、结构性种族主义、 心理健康的挑战、 各类成瘾, 以及甚至移民问题。
dire:adj.可怕的;悲惨的;极端的; structural:adj.结构的;建筑的; racism:n.种族主义,种族歧视;人种偏见; addiction:n.瘾;嗜好;入迷;
And instead, we have used our jails and our criminal legal system, right, to answer those problems. 相反,我们一直惯用 我们的监狱和刑事法律制度 来解决这些问题。
And that has to change. 而这需要改变。
MZ: It's not the answer. MZ:这不是我们的答案。
RS: We have done damage to millions of people and in so doing, we have harmed their families and we have harmed their communities, and we need to reckon with that. RS:我们已经给上百万的人 造成了伤害, 我们也因此伤害了他们的家庭, 他们的社区。 我们需要认识到所有的这些破坏。
MZ: So I want to ask you finally -- MZ:所以最后我想要问您——
(Applause) （掌声）
You've got some of the smartest women in the world here, surrounding you. 在您周围,
They're energized , they want to know what to do with that energy when they go back to their communities. 她们充满活力, 她们想要知道 在回到她们的社区后, 可以如何利用她们的能量。
energized:v.使充满热情; (energize的过去分词和过去式)
And actually I know you took some of them to see a local jail yesterday, right? 实际上,我知道你昨天 带着她们一些人去了当地的监狱,对吧？
RS: I did. RS:没错。
MZ: Can you tell us about that? MZ:你可以和我们说说吗？
RS: So, here's what we need to understand. RS:我们需要了解这一点。
This problem is all of our problems. 这个问题是我们所有的问题。
Each and every one of us is implicated in what our criminal legal system looks like. 我们每个人都受到 刑事法律制度的影响。
implicated:adj.密切关联的; v.涉及(某人); (implicate的过去分词和过去式)
There is no escaping that. 没人能逃脱。
It reflects each of us. 这体现了我们每个人。
reflects:v.反映;映出(影像);反射;表明,表达;(reflect的第三人称单数)
Every time a prosecutor gets up and says, "The people of the state of California" or "New York" or "Idaho," 检察官每次起身说: “加利福尼亚州的人,或纽约州, 或是爱达荷州的的人民,”
prosecutor:n.检察官;公诉人;[法]起诉人;实行者;
they are speaking in your names. 他们在以你的名义说话。
So we have to take some ownership over this. 所以我们对此必须 拥有一些所有权。
And we really have to own the fact that this has to change and this implicates every one of us. 我们真的需要接受一个现实 即这需要改变, 而且它牵连着我们每个人。
implicates:v.牵涉,涉及(某人); (implicate的第三人称单数和复数)
So what you need to do, is as I said , you need to get educated, you also need to get proximate to this. 所以你需要做的,宛如我说, 你需要自我教育, 你也需要了解这个话题。
as I said:正如我所说的 proximate:adj.近似的;最近的;
And by getting proximate, 为了熟悉了解这个话题,
I mean you need to go and see how our criminal legal system operates. 你需要亲眼目睹 我们的刑事法律制度是如何运行的。
That may mean go to a local criminal courthouse , sit in the back of a courtroom , and I promise you will never be the same, it's what made me become a public defender all those years ago. 这可能意味着去到 当地的刑事法庭, 坐在法庭后方, 之后我保证你会变得不一样, 这也是在多年前我选择 成为公设辩护律师的原因之一。
courthouse:n.法院;(美)县政府所在地; courtroom:n.法庭;审判室;
And yesterday, I took a bunch of people from the TED conference to the local jail here. 昨天,我带了一些 TED 大会的人 去到了这里的当地监狱。
a bunch of:一群;一束;一堆; conference:n.会议;研讨会;商讨会;体育协会(或联合会)
I have been coming in and out of jails for 38 years. 我进出监狱已经有 38 年了。
And I have never not been shocked, and yesterday was no exception . 我从来没有一次不被震惊, 昨天也不列外。
exception:n.例外;异议;
I was shocked, I was horrified . 我很震惊,我很恐惧。
horrified:adj.惊骇的;带有恐怖感的;v.惊骇(horrify的过去式和过去分词);使…战悚;
The conditions were dehumanizing and degrading and horrifying -- and incomprehensible if you don't actually see it with your eyes. 监狱的条件并不人性化, 侮辱人格且令人恐惧, 而且如果你不亲眼所见, 会很难理解。
dehumanizing:vt.使成兽性;使失掉人性; degrading:adj.降低身份的; v.降低…身份; (degrade的现在分词) horrifying:adj.令人极其震惊的;v.惊吓;使厌恶;(horrify的现在分词) incomprehensible:adj.费解的;不可思议的;无限的;
It was shocking. 真的非常令人震惊。
And I saw it on the faces of the people that I was with. 我也能从和我一同前往的人的 面部表情上看出震惊。
So we have to know that's what we're doing in the name of justice in this country and stand up against it . 所以我们必须知道我们在以 这个国家的正义之名做些什么, 并且站起来反抗它。
in the name of:以…的名义; up against it:面临困难;遇到经济上的困难;
But the only way you're going to do that is if you fight back the narrative of fear that enables that to happen. 但你这么做的唯一途径就是 你反击允许这些发生的 恐怖叙事。
narrative:n.叙述;故事;讲述;adj.叙事的,叙述的;叙事体的; enables:v.使得; (enable的第三人称单数)
And what do I mean by that? 这是什么意思？
I promise you, every single time you get into a conversation about bail reform or criminal justice reform, here's what happens: everybody starts talking about the scary case. 我保证,每一次你 参与一个关于保释金或 刑事法律制度改革的对话, 这会发生:
'"But what about the guy who did X?" “但是那个做了某事的人怎么样了？”
So here's what I'm here -- to rest -- 所以这里就是我讲的—— 暂停一下——
Just have you rest a little bit and sit with this, right? 你就在这时候暂停一会儿, 仔细想一下,好吗？
Despite the fact that we have used our criminal legal system and destroyed millions of people, that we have harmed people, exposed them to trauma and violence, day after day after day, the truth is, when people come home, bad things happen rarely . 尽管事实是 我们使用刑事法律制度 摧毁了上百万人, 我们伤害了人, 将他们置于创伤与暴力的处境, 日复一日, 真相是,当人们回家, 坏事很少发生。
Despite:prep.尽管,不管;n.轻视;憎恨;侮辱; day after day:日复一日; rarely:adv.很少地;难得;罕有地;
It is the exception, not the rule. 这是例外,不是规则。
It is the extraordinary , not the normal. 这不同寻常,而非正常。
extraordinary:adj.非凡的;特别的;离奇的;临时的;特派的;
But if you don't know that, if you don't hold on to that, if you can't support that with data, which we can, you will be drawn into the narrative of fear that will lead us to justify the kinds of horrors we have inflicted 但如果你不知道这一点, 如果你没有坚持, 如果你无法用数据来支持 这个故事,而我们可以, 你将会陷入这恐惧叙事中, 这将成为我们对自身恐惧的 正当辩解—— 那种恐惧,我们加以
hold on to:坚持;紧握;克制; justify:v.证明合法;整理版面;替…辩护; horrors:n.震惊;恐惧;厌恶;;令人厌恶的性质;(horror的复数) inflicted:把…强加给;使承受(inflict的过去式和过去分词);
upon communities of color and low-income communities and people that become ensnared in our criminal legal system for far too long. 有色社区、低收入社区之上, 以及被我们的刑事法律制度 所困扰太久的人之上的恐惧。
ensnared:vt.诱捕;诱入陷阱;进入罗网;
So get educated -- 所以请自我教育——
(Applause) （掌声）
Get educated, proximate, stay vigilant , do not be drawn into the narratives of fear, which are wildly and grossly racialized anyway. 自我教育,开始了解, 保持警惕, 不要陷入引发恐惧的叙事模式中, 那些都是极其种族歧视的说法。
vigilant:adj.警惕的;警醒的;注意的;警戒的; narratives:n.叙述,故事;叙述的手法(narrative复数); wildly:adv.野生地;野蛮地;狂暴地;鲁莽地; grossly:adv.很;非常; racialized:种族化;种族化的;(racialized是racialize的过去式)
Check it when you hear it, question it when somebody says it to you, ask for the data, "Why do you say that," right? 当你听到一个故事时,核查一下; 当有人和你讲这么一个故事时, 质疑一下, 询问一下数据来源: “你为什么这么说,”对吧？
And don't get drawn into that. 不要陷入那些故事中。
And if you do, 如果你能做到,
I'm actually convinced that we're at a moment where we will build a better criminal legal system. 我实际上深信 我们此刻正在建立一个更好的 刑事法律制度。
convinced:adj.坚信; v.使确信; (convince的过去分词和过去式)
If you get proximate to this and you actually begin to engage in it, we will not only be a better country, each of us will be better people. 如果你能加以了解, 并且真正参与到其中, 我们将不仅能成为 一个更好的国家, 每个人都能变得更好。
engage:v.吸引,占用;使参加;雇佣;使订婚;预定;
And that is a worthy goal. 而这是一个非常有价值的目标。
worthy:adj.值得的; n.杰出人物;
MZ: It's a very worthy goal. MZ:这确实是一个非常有价值的目标。
(Applause) （掌声）
I mean, did I hit the jackpot with my first interview, or what? 我是在第一个采访中 中了头奖吗,还是啥的？
jackpot:n.头奖;累积赌注;十分成功;adj.头奖的;累积赌注的;大笔收入的;
She is badass . 她真的很厉害。
badass:n.坏蛋;adj.到处惹是生非的;
Robin Steinberg, the Bail Project, thank you so much. 罗宾 · 斯坦伯格,“保释金项目”, 非常感谢您的到来。
RS: Thanks. RS:谢谢。
MZ: I'm Manoush Zomorodi, MZ:我是马努什 · 佐莫罗迪,
I'm the new host of the TED Radio Hour, and I'll see you in the spring. 我是 TED Radio Hour 的新主持人, 春天与你们相见。
(Applause) （掌声）