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JonathanHaidt_2016S-_我们能否重愈美国之隙？_
Chris Anderson: So, Jon, this feels scary. Jon, 这感觉真有点恐怖。
Jonathan Haidt: Yeah. JH:是的。
CA: It feels like the world is in a place that we haven't seen for a long time. CA: 好像世人形同陌路, 不曾相识。
People don't just disagree in the way that we're familiar with, on the left-right political divide. 人们不只是一如往常, 对左右派的分歧争执不休,
in the way:妨碍;挡道; familiar:adj.熟悉的;常见的;亲近的;n.常客;密友;
There are much deeper differences afoot . 还有更深层次的疏离。
afoot:adj.在进行中的;徒步的;准备中;adv.在进行中,在准备中;
What on earth is going on, and how did we get here? 究竟发生了什么？我们为何变成这样？
JH: This is different. JH: 现在不同以往,
There's a much more apocalyptic sort of feeling. 有种世界末日般绝望的感觉。
apocalyptic:adj.启示录的;天启的;
Survey research by Pew Research shows that the degree to which we feel that the other side is not just — we don't just dislike them; we strongly dislike them, and we think that they are a threat to the nation. 皮尤研究的调查显示, 我们对另一派的感觉程度, 并不是简单地不喜欢他们或强烈地不喜欢他们。 我们觉得对方对整个民族造成了威胁。
Survey:n.调查;测量;审视;纵览;vt.调查;勘测;俯瞰;vi.测量土地;
Those numbers have been going up and up, and those are over 50 percent now on both sides. 这些人的占比一直在上升, 现在两边具有这种想法的人都超过了50％。
People are scared, because it feels like this is different than before; it's much more intense . 人们感到恐惧, 因为这种感觉有别于以前,而且特别的强烈。
different than:不同于; intense:adj.强烈的;紧张的;非常的;热情的;
Whenever I look at any sort of social puzzle , 每当我审视社会难题时,
puzzle:n.谜;疑问;智力游戏;不解之谜;v.迷惑;使困惑;
I always apply the three basic principles of moral psychology , and I think they'll help us here. 我都会采用三个最基本的道德心理学原则, 在这里应该也能起到作用。
apply:v.申请;涂,敷;应用;适用;请求; principles:n.原则;主义;本质;政策;(principle的复数) moral:n.寓意;品行;教益;adj.道德的;道义上的;道德上的;品行端正的; psychology:n.心理学;心理状态;
So the first thing that you have to always keep in mind when you're thinking about politics is that we're tribal . 所以,当考虑政治问题时, 必须首先意识到, 我们是部落式的,
keep in mind:记住; politics:n.政治;钩心斗角;政治观点;v.(贬)从事政治活动;(politic的第三人称单数) tribal:adj.部落的;部族的;n.(尤指南亚的)部落成员;
We evolved for tribalism . 我们演化为部落主义。
evolved:v.(使)逐渐形成;进化;进化形成;(evolve的过去分词和过去式) tribalism:n.部落文化;部落制;部落制度;
One of the simplest and greatest insights into human social nature is the Bedouin proverb : "Me against my brother; me and my brother against our cousin; me and my brother and cousins against the stranger." 其中最简单且最伟大揭示人类社会本质的谚语 是由贝都因总结的: “ 我反对我的兄弟; 我和我兄弟反对我们的表兄; 而我们一起反对陌生人。
insights:n.洞察力;眼力;深刻见解(insight的复数); Bedouin:n.贝多因人(一个居无定所的阿拉伯游牧民族); adj.贝都因人的; proverb:n.谚语,格言;众所周知的人或事;
And that tribalism allowed us to create large societies and to come together in order to compete with others. 部落主义使我们自身的社会逐渐强大, 大家一起便可与其他部落抗衡。
compete:v.竞争;对抗;参加比赛(或竞赛);
That brought us out of the jungle and out of small groups, but it means that we have eternal conflict . 这使我们走出丛林逐渐壮大, 但也意味着固有的矛盾性。
jungle:n.密林;尔虞我诈的环境;危险地带; eternal:adj.永恒的;不朽的; conflict:n.冲突;矛盾;争执;抵触;v.抵触;
The question you have to look at is: 你需要关注的问题是:
What aspects of our society are making that more bitter , and what are calming them down? 我们的社会在哪些方面使之恶化, 又在哪些方面平息了这种矛盾？
aspects:n.方面;相位;面貌(aspect的复数); bitter:adj.苦的; n.苦味; v.激烈地; v.使变苦;
CA: That's a very dark proverb. CA: 这谚语听上去挺沉重。
You're saying that that's actually baked into most people's mental wiring at some level? 你是说在一定程度上, 这种观念对大多数人来说是根深蒂固的？
baked:v.烘烤;焙;烤硬;灼热;(bake的过去分词和过去式) mental:adj.精神的;脑力的;疯的;n.精神病患者;
JH: Oh, absolutely . This is just a basic aspect of human social cognition . JH:哦,绝对的这是人类社会认知的基本方面,
absolutely:adv.绝对地;完全地; cognition:n.认识;知识;认识能力;
But we can also live together really peacefully , and we've invented all kinds of fun ways of, like, playing war. 但我们也可以和平共处。 而且我们还发明了各种的有趣的活动,例如模拟打仗。
peacefully:adv.平静地;和平地;
I mean, sports, politics — these are all ways that we get to exercise this tribal nature without actually hurting anyone. 我是说体育,政治—— 这些活动都是在不伤及他人的情况下, 体现这种部落性质。
We're also really good at trade and exploration and meeting new people. 我们也非常擅长贸易,探险和认识新朋友。
exploration:n.探索;勘探;探险;[医]探查术;
So you have to see our tribalism as something that goes up or down — it's not like we're doomed to always be fighting each other, but we'll never have world peace. 所以必须把部落主义看作是有毁誉参半的—— 我们并不是注定就是相互争斗。 但永远没有世界和平。
doomed:adj.注定的;命定的;v.使…注定失败(doom的过去分词和过去式)
CA: The size of that tribe can shrink or expand . CA:部落的大小可以缩小也可以增大。
tribe:n.部落;族;宗族;一伙; shrink:v.收缩;减少;退缩;畏缩;n.精神病学家;心理学家; expand:v.扩张;使膨胀;详述;发展;张开,展开;
JH: Right. JH: 对的。
CA: The size of what we consider "us" CA:我们认为“我们”的大小,
and what we consider "other" or "them" 以及我们认为的“其他”或“他们”,
can change. 都是可以变化的。
And some people believed that process could continue indefinitely . 有些人认为这个过程可以无限期地继续。
process:v.处理;加工;列队行进;n.过程,进行;方法,adj.经过特殊加工(或处理)的; indefinitely:adv.不确定地,无限期地;模糊地,不明确地;
JH: That's right. JH: 是的。
CA: And we were indeed expanding the sense of tribe for a while . CA:我们对部落的认同确实在扩张。
expanding:v.扩大,增加,增强细谈;详述;(expand的现在分词) for a while:adv.片刻;暂时;一会儿;一时;
JH: So this is, I think, where we're getting at what's possibly the new left-right distinction . JH:所以我认为, 这可能就是新的左右派别分歧出现的地方。
distinction:n.区别;区分;差别;卓越;
I mean, the left-right as we've all inherited it, comes out of the labor versus capital distinction, and the working class , and Marx. 我的意思是我们所了解的左右派, 来自劳动力与资本的差异 和工人阶级,马克思。
inherited:v.继承(金钱、财产等);接替(责任等);继任;(inherit的过去式和过去分词) versus:prep.对;与...相对;对抗; working class:adj.工人阶级的;劳动阶级的;
But I think what we're seeing now, increasingly , is a divide in all the Western democracies between the people who want to stop at nation, the people who are more parochial — and I don't mean that in a bad way — 但现在我们所看到越来越多的是 西方民主国家内部的分歧。 一些人主张本国内 狭隘的民族主义, 我没有贬低之意,
increasingly:adv.越来越多地;渐增地; democracies:民主; parochial:adj.教区的;狭小的;地方范围的; in a bad way:身体状况不好;情况不佳;病情严重;受伤;
people who have much more of a sense of being rooted, they care about their town, their community and their nation. 他们关心自己的城镇, 社区和国家的盛衰。立足于本位主义。
community:n.社区;[生态]群落;共同体;团体;
And then those who are anti-parochial and who — whenever I get confused , I just think of the John Lennon song "Imagine." 而另外一些人是则是反狭隘主义的。 每当我对此困惑时就会想起约翰·列侬的“想象”:
confused:adj.困惑的; v.使糊涂; (confuse的过去分词和过去式)
'"Imagine there's no countries, nothing to kill or die for." “想象一个没有国界的地方,没有杀戮或战争“。
And so these are the people who want more global governance , they don't like nation states, they don't like borders. 这些人想要更多的治理全球, 他们不喜欢民族化的国家他们不喜欢边界,
global:adj.全球的;总体的;球形的; governance:n.管理;统治;支配;
You see this all over Europe as well. 这在欧洲也极其普遍。
There's a great metaphor guy — actually, his name is Shakespeare — writing ten years ago in Britain. 有个家伙做了形象的比喻实际上,他的名字叫莎士比亚—— 是十年前在英国时写的,
metaphor:n.暗喻,隐喻;比喻说法; Shakespeare:n.莎士比亚(英国剧作家);
He had a metaphor: "Are we drawbridge-uppers or drawbridge-downers?" 他的比喻是这样的: “我们是闭关锁国好呢还是‘大开闸门’好呢？”
And Britain is divided 52-48 on that point. 英国对此以52-48的比例分裂,
And America is divided on that point, too. 在这一点上美国也分歧很大。
CA: And so, those of us who grew up with The Beatles and that sort of hippie philosophy of dreaming of a more connected world — it felt so idealistic and "how could anyone think badly about that?" CA:我们这些与披头士一同长大, 追随世界大同的嬉皮哲学的人们, 惊讶:如此的理想主义“怎么可能有人认为它不好？“
Beatles:n.披头士合唱(摇滚乐队); hippie:n.嬉皮士;嬉皮模样的年青人;adj.嬉皮的; philosophy:n.哲学;哲理;人生观; idealistic:adj.理想主义的;唯心论的;唯心主义者的;空想家的;
And what you're saying is that, actually, millions of people today feel that that isn't just silly; it's actually dangerous and wrong, and they're scared of it. 你现在所说的,实际上是: 成千上万的人们不仅觉得它愚蠢, 更是危险和错误的,他们对此恐惧。
JH: I think the big issue , especially in Europe but also here, is the issue of immigration . JH:我认为关键问题特别是在欧洲, 但就算这里也如此:就是移民问题。
issue:n.重要议题;争论的问题;v.宣布;公布;发出;发行; especially:adv.尤其;特别;格外;十分; immigration:n.外来移民;移居;
And I think this is where we have to look very carefully at the social science about diversity and immigration. 我认为我们必须从社会学的角度来 审视多样性和移民问题。
social science:n.社会科学;社会科学学科; diversity:n.差异(性):多样性:多样化:
Once something becomes politicized , once it becomes something that the left loves and the right — then even the social scientists can't think straight about it. 一旦事物被政治化, 一旦它成为左派的挚爱右派的天敌, 那么甚至社会学家都不得其解。
politicized:adj.政治化的; v.使具有政治性;
Now, diversity is good in a lot of ways. 现在,多样性在很多方面是好的,
It clearly creates more innovation . 它明显开创了许多先河。
innovation:n.创新,革新;新方法;
The American economy has grown enormously from it. 美国经济的迅速增长大大得益于此。
economy:n.经济;节约;理财; enormously:adv.巨大地,庞大地;非常地,在极大程度上;
Diversity and immigration do a lot of good things. 多样性和移民贡献了很多好的东西。
But what the globalists , I think, don't see, what they don't want to see, is that ethnic diversity cuts social capital and trust. 但是全球主义者没有看到, 或是不想看到的是: 种族多样性削减了社会资本和彼此的信任。
globalists:n.支持全球主义者; ethnic:adj.种族的;人种的;
There's a very important study by Robert Putnam, the author of "Bowling Alone," “独自玩保龄”的作者罗伯特普特南 有一个非常重要的
looking at social capital databases. 有关社会资本数据库的研究:
And basically , the more people feel that they are the same, the more they trust each other, the more they can have a redistributionist welfare state . 基本上人们越觉得彼此类似, 就越会彼此信任, 他们就越有可能重新分配国家的福利。
basically:adv.主要地,基本上; welfare state:n.福利制度(由政府向有需要的人提供各种免费服务,如医疗、失业救济金、对老人的照顾等);
Scandinavian countries are so wonderful because they have this legacy of being small, homogenous countries. 斯堪的纳维亚国家之所以好, 就是因为他们有保持小国同质的传统,
legacy:n.遗赠,遗产; homogenous:adj.[生物]同质的;同类的;
And that leads to a progressive welfare state, a set of progressive left-leaning values, which says, " Drawbridge down! The world is a great place. 从而形成了高质的福利国家。 一些左倾价值思潮践行 “国门打开！世界本是美好的
progressive:adj.进步的;先进的;开明的;稳步的;n.进步人士;开明人士;改革派; left-leaning:adj.左倾的; Drawbridge:n.(可开闭的)吊桥;
People in Syria are suffering — we must welcome them in." 叙利亚人民正在受苦,我们必须欢迎他们。“
Syria:n.叙利亚共和国;
And it's a beautiful thing. 这本是一件美丽的事情。
But if, and I was in Sweden this summer, if the discourse in Sweden is fairly politically correct and they can't talk about the downsides , you end up bringing a lot of people in. 但如果今年夏天我是在瑞典, 所用话题都必须在政治上保持其正确性, 不能谈论它的任何缺陷。 引进大量人口,
discourse:n.论述;谈话;演讲;vi.演说;谈论;讲述;vt.说出;演奏出; fairly:adv.相当地;公平地;简直; politically correct:adj.政治上正确的(指言行上避免有歧视之嫌); downsides:下降趋势;消极面,缺点(downside的复数);
That's going to cut social capital, it makes it hard to have a welfare state and they might end up, as we have in America, with a racially divided, visibly racially divided, society. 那将削减社会资本, 这将很难保持原有的社会福利。 最后就像我们美国一样: 成为种族分裂且是明显的种族分裂的社会。
racially:adv.人种上;按人种; visibly:adv.明显地;显然;看得见地;
So this is all very uncomfortable to talk about. 这一切都非常难以启齿,
But I think this is the thing, especially in Europe and for us, too, we need to be looking at. 但我认为这些,特别是在欧洲和我们, 都必须直视的。
CA: You're saying that people of reason, people who would consider themselves not racists , but moral, upstanding people, have a rationale that says humans are just too different; CA:你是说有理性的人, 他们不认为自己是种族主义者, 但从道义上讲, 直率的人有理由说人类只是太不同了。
racists:n.种族主义者;种族主义的; upstanding:adj.正直的;正派的;诚实的; rationale:n.基本原理;原理的阐述;
that we're in danger of overloading our sense of what humans are capable of, by mixing in people who are too different. 融合极其不同的人种 实际上超出了我们的能力从而变得岌岌可危。
overloading:v.[电]超负荷,过载(overload的现在分词形式); capable:adj.能干的,能胜任的;有才华的; mixing:n.混合;混频;录音;v.混合,掺和,融合;调配;配制;相容;(mix的现在分词)
JH: Yes, but I can make it much more palatable by saying it's not necessarily about race. JH:是的,但我可以换种说法可能更容易接受。 这不一定是种族的区别,
palatable:adj.美味的,可口的;愉快的; necessarily:adv.必要地;必定地,必然地;
It's about culture. 而是文化的不同。
There's wonderful work by a political scientist named Karen Stenner, who shows that when people have a sense that we are all united , we're all the same , there are many people who have a predisposition to authoritarianism . 有一个叫凯伦·斯登纳的政治学者做了一项精彩的研究: 它显示出:当人们认为彼此团结时 大家都是一样的, 其中有很多人都有独裁主义的倾向。
political scientist:n.政治学家; united:adj.联合的; v.联合,团结; (unite的过去分词和过去式) all the same:仍然:依然:照样: predisposition:n.倾向;素质;易染病体质; authoritarianism:n.独裁主义;权力主义;
Those people aren't particularly racist when they feel as through there's not a threat to our social and moral order. 当他们觉得 社会和道德秩序没有受到威胁时, 这部分人并不是特别的种族主义者,
particularly:adv.特别地,独特地;详细地,具体地;明确地,细致地;
But if you prime them experimentally by thinking we're coming apart, people are getting more different, then they get more racist, homophobic , they want to kick out the deviants . 但是在实验中如果告诉他们人们来自不同的地方 那么他们就会变得有所区分。 出现更多的种族主义者,憎恨同性恋者他们便想驱逐异教徒,
prime:adj.主要的; v.极好地; n.初期; v.使准备好; experimentally:adv.实验上;用实验方法;实验式地; homophobic:adj.害怕同性恋的; deviants:n.不正常者;偏移值;变异物;adj.不正常的;离经叛道的;
So it's in part that you get an authoritarian reaction . 这就是产生专制的部分原因。
reaction:n.反应,感应;反动,复古;反作用;
The left, following through the Lennonist line — the John Lennon line — does things that create an authoritarian reaction. 那些追随列宁主义, 约翰·列侬的左派, 他们的意识形态创造了专制反应。
We're certainly seeing that in America with the alt-right . 当然我们在美国的极其右派中也看到了同样的情形。
alt-right:另类右派(alternativeright);
We saw it in Britain, we've seen it all over Europe. 在英国,我们见到它同样地,整个欧洲也在盛行。
But the more positive part of that is that I think the localists, or the nationalists , are actually right — that, if you emphasize our cultural similarity , then race doesn't actually matter very much. 但其积极的一部分在于我认为, 主张本地化或民族主义者实际上是正确的: 如果你强调文化的相似性, 种族实际上并不那么重要。
positive:adj.积极的;[数]正的,[医][化学]阳性的;确定的;n.正数;[摄]正片; nationalists:n.民族主义者;国家主义者(nationalist人复数); emphasize:v.强调;重视;着重;使突出; cultural:adj.与文化有关的;文化的;与艺术、文学、音乐等有关的; similarity:n.类似;相似点;
So an assimilationist approach to immigration removes a lot of these problems. 所以移民同化措施 会消除很多这些问题。
assimilationist:n.主张社会同化者; approach:n.方法;路径;v.接近;建议;着手处理;
And if you value having a generous welfare state, you've got to emphasize that we're all the same. 如果你想要一个慷慨的福利国家, 你必须强调大家都一样。
generous:adj.慷慨的,大方的;宽宏大量的;有雅量的;
CA: OK, so rising immigration and fears about that are one of the causes of the current divide. CA:好吧,移民和对此的担忧越来越多 是当前分裂的原因之一,
What are other causes? 另外 还有什么其他原因呢？
JH: The next principle of moral psychology is that intuitions come first , strategic reasoning second. JH:道德心理学的另一个原则是: 直觉占先,合理的推论排在第二。
intuitions:n.直觉;直觉力;直觉的知识; come first:名列第一;最早来;首先要考虑到的; strategic:adj.战略上的,战略的;
You've probably heard the term " motivated reasoning" 你可能听说过术语“动机推理”
motivated:adj.有动机的; v.使产生动机;
or "confirmation bias ." 或“确认偏差”。
bias:adv.使有偏见;n.偏见;偏心;偏爱;v.使有偏见;使偏向;adj.斜的;[电]偏动的;
There's some really interesting work on how our high intelligence and our verbal abilities might have evolved not to help us find out the truth, but to help us manipulate each other, defend our reputation ... 关于我们的高智商和言语能力 有一些很有趣的研究结果: 随着进化它们不再是帮助我们找出真相的工具, 而是帮助我们互相操纵,保护我们的声誉...
intelligence:n.智力;智慧;才智;(尤指关于敌国的)情报; verbal:adj.口头的;言语的;动词的;照字面的;n.动词的非谓语形式; manipulate:vt.操纵;操作;巧妙地处理;篡改;
We're really, really good at justifying ourselves. 我们极其善于强词夺理
justifying:n.活字整理; v.证明…有理(justify的现在分词);
And when you bring group interests into account, so it's not just me, it's my team versus your team, whereas if you're evaluating evidence that your side is wrong, we just can't accept that. 当开始考虑集团利益时 不再只是我,而是我的团队抗衡你的团队 尽管有证据证明你是错的, 我们也不能接受,
whereas:conj.然而;鉴于;反之; evaluating:v.估计;评价;评估;(evaluate的现在分词) evidence:n.证据,证明;迹象;明显;v.证明;
So this is why you can't win a political argument. 这就是为什么你赢不了政治辩论。
If you're debating something, you can't persuade the person with reasons and evidence, because that's not the way reasoning works. 如果你在辩论一个话题 你不能用理由和证据说服对方, 因为这对推理不起作用。
debating:v.讨论,辩论;仔细考虑;思考;盘算;(debate的现在分词) persuade:v.说服;劝说;使信服;使相信;
So now, give us the internet, give us Google : "I heard that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. 所以现在,给我们互联网给我们Google “我听说了奥巴马出生在肯尼亚
Google:谷歌;谷歌搜索引擎;
Let me Google that — oh my God! 10 million hits! Look, he was!" 让我Google 一下 - 我的上帝！1000万次点击！ 看,真的是呀！“
CA: So this has come as an unpleasant surprise to a lot of people. CA:所以这个不怎么样的现实震惊了很多人。
unpleasant:adj.令人不快的;不舒服的;不客气的
Social media has often been framed by techno-optimists as this great connecting force that would bring people together. 社交媒体经常被高科技乐观者, 模式化成使人们相互连接的伟大动力。
media:n.媒体;媒质(medium的复数);血管中层;浊塞音;中脉; framed:v.给…做框;给…镶边;制订;拟订;(frame的过去分词和过去式)
And there have been some unexpected counter-effects to that. 但实际上它也制造了意想不到的反作用力。
unexpected:adj.意外的,想不到的;
JH: That's right. JH:没错,
That's why I'm very enamored of yin-yang views of human nature and left-right — that each side is right about certain things, but then it goes blind to other things. 这就是为什么我很沉迷于 对人性的阴阳观点和左右派别—— 每一方对某些问题都是一定的正确性, 但对另一面又有盲目性。
enamored:adj.迷恋的;倾心的;v.迷住,使迷恋(enamor的过去分词形式); yin-yang:阴阳; human nature:n.人性;
And so the left generally believes that human nature is good: bring people together, knock down the walls and all will be well. 所以左派一般都相信人性是好的, 清除障碍,让人们聚在一起一切都会变得美好。
generally:adv.通常;普遍地,一般地; knock down:adj.最低的;可拆卸的;不可抵抗的;压倒一切的;n.打倒的一击;混战;降低;
The right — social conservatives , not libertarians — social conservatives generally believe people can be greedy and sexual and selfish, and w e need regu lation , and w e need restrictions . 右派——社会保守主义者不是自由主义者—— 社会保守主义者一般认为, 人们贪婪,性别歧视和自私, 我们需要监管和限制。
conservatives:n.保守党,保守派; libertarians:adj.自由的;自由论者的;持自由论的;n.自由意志主义者;行动自由论者; lation:n.副调制;
So, yeah, if you knock down all the walls, allow people to communicate all over the world, you get a lot of porn and a lot of racism . 如果拆除障碍 允许世界各地的人们随意沟通, 色情的东西便会泛滥出现很多种族主义者。
porn:n.淫秽作品;色情书刊(或音像制品等)(等于pornography); racism:n.种族主义,种族歧视;人种偏见;
CA: So help us understand. CA:那么帮助我们理解一下,
These principles of human nature have been with us forever. 这些人性的本质与生俱来,挥之不去,
What's changed that's deepened this feeling of division ? 那么是什么加深了这种分裂的感觉呢？
deepened:v.加强,变强烈;(使)变糟,恶化,严重;(使)变深;(deepen的过去分词和过去式) division:n.师;分配;分开;分歧;
JH: You have to see six to ten different threads all coming together. JH:你会遇到六到十个不同的原因交织在一起,
threads:n.线; v.穿(针); (thread的第三人称单数和复数)
I'll just list a couple of them. 我在这里只列举几个原因:
So in America, one of the big — actually, America and Europe — one of the biggest ones is World War II. 在美国,实际上包括美国和欧洲 最关键的是第二次世界大战。
There's interesting research from Joe Henrich and others that says if your country was at war, especially when you were young, then we test you 30 years later in a commons dilemma or a prisoner's dilemma, you're more cooperative . Joe Henrich和其他一些人的有趣研究发现, 如果你的国家沦陷战争, 特别是在你小的时候, 30年后在一般的困境 或牢狱中再测试你, 你更善于合作。
dilemma:n.困境;进退两难;两刀论法; cooperative:adj.合作的;协作的;同心协力的;协助的;n.合作企业;合作社组织;
Because of our tribal nature, if you're — my parents were teenagers during World War II, and they would go out looking for scraps of aluminum to help the war effort. 因为我们的部落性质—— 我父母的青少年时期正值第二次世界大战期间, 他们会出去寻找铝屑 来支持战争,
scraps:n.残羹剩饭;刮屑(scrap的复数); aluminum:n.铝;
I mean, everybody pulled together. 我的意思是,大家团结一致。
And so then these people go on, they rise up through business and government, they take leadership positions. 然后这些人成长, 他们通过生意或在政府部门任职渐入佳境 从而担任领导职位,
They're really good at compromise and cooperation . 他们真的很擅长妥协和合作,
compromise:n.妥协;折中;互让;和解;v.妥协;违背(原则);达不到(标准);使陷入危险; cooperation:n.合作;配合;
They all retire by the '90s. 他们都在90年代退休了。
So we're left with baby boomers by the end of the '90s. 到90年代末我们只剩下婴儿潮一代——
baby boomers:婴儿潮出生的一代人(babyboomer的名词复数);
And their youth was spent fighting each other within each country, in 1968 and afterwards. 1968年以后。 他们的青春奋斗只发生在每个国家的内部,
The loss of the World War II generation, "The Greatest Generation," 失去二战这“最伟大的一代”
is huge. 损失巨大,
So that's one. 这是原因之一。
Another, in America, is the purification of the two parties. 在美国另外一个原因是两党的净化,
purification:n.净化;提纯;涤罪;
There used to be liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats . 曾经我们是自由共和党和保守民主党。
liberal:adj.宽宏大度的; n.理解且尊重他人意见的人; Republicans:n.共和党,共和党员;(republican的复数形式) Democrats:n.民主党员(democrat的复数);民主主义者;
So America had a mid-20th century that was really bipartisan . 在20世纪中叶美国是真正的两党制,
bipartisan:adj.两党连立的;代表两党的;
But because of a variety of factors that started things moving, by the 90's, we had a purified liberal party and conservative party . 但是由于各种因素情况开始变化, 到了90年代,我们有了净化后的自由党和保守党。
variety:n.多样;种类;杂耍;变化,多样化; factors:n.因素(factor的复数); v.做代理商; purified:v.使(某物)洁净;净化(心灵);提纯;精炼;(purify的过去分词和过去式) conservative party:n.保守党(英国主要政党之一,尤其信奉自由企业制度及产业私有化);
So now, the people in either party really are different, and we really don't want our children to marry them, which, in the '60s, didn't matter very much. 现在,两个党派中的成员截然不同, 我们开始反对彼此的子女联姻。 但在60年代,这没有什么关系。
So, the purification of the parties. 这便党派净化的原因。
Third is the internet and, as I said , it's just the most amazing stimulant for post-hoc reasoning and demonization . 第三个便是互联网,如上所述, 这是事后颠倒黑白魔鬼般最具刺激性的推动力。
as I said:正如我所说的 stimulant:n.[药]兴奋剂;刺激物;酒精饮料;adj.激励的;使人兴奋的; demonization:n.妖魔化;
CA: The tone of what's happening on the internet now is quite troubling. CA:现在互联网上的某些评论相当恶劣,
tone:n.语气:风格:特色:声音信号:v.使更结实:与…协调:
I just did a quick search on Twitter about the election and saw two tweets next to each other. 我只是在Twitter上做了一下有关选举的快速搜索, 看到两个彼此相邻的tweets,
tweets:n.啾啾声,小鸟叫声(tweet的复数形式);v.鸣叫(tweet的三单形式);
One, against a picture of racist graffiti : "This is disgusting ! 一个是针对一张种族主义涂鸦的图片: “这真是太恶心了！
graffiti:n.墙上乱写乱画的东西(graffito的复数形式); disgusting:adj.令人不快的;令人厌恶的;v.使作呕;使厌恶;使反感;(disgust的现在分词)
Ugliness in this country, brought to us by #Trump." 在这个国家Trump带给我们丑陋之物。”
Ugliness:n.丑陋,丑陋之物;
And then the next one is: " Crooked Hillary dedication page. Disgusting!" 下一个是: “ 骗子希拉里奉献的页面, 恶心！“
Crooked:adj.扭曲的;弯曲的;不直的;v.(手指或手臂)弯曲;(crook的过去分词和过去式) Hillary:n.希拉里(美国国务卿); dedication:n.奉献;献身;(建筑物等的)落成典礼;(书、音乐或演出前部的)献词;
So this idea of "disgust" is troubling to me. 这种“厌恶”的想法困扰着我,
Because you can have an argument or a disagreement about something, you can get angry at someone. 因为你可以争论一件事或对某事有分歧, 你可以生某人的气。
Disgust, I've heard you say, takes things to a much deeper level. 厌恶,我听说你说过使事情深层化。
JH: That's right. Disgust is different. JH:没错 厌恶是不同的,
Anger — you know, I have kids. 生气——你知道 我有孩子。
They fight 10 times a day, and they love each other 30 times a day. 他们每天打10次架 但每天互相示爱30次。
You just go back and forth : you get angry, you're not angry; you're angry, you're not angry. 你只是来回反复:你生气,你不生气, 你生气,你不生气……
back and forth:前后移动的,来回的,反复的;
But disgust is different. 但厌恶是不同的,
Disgust paints the person as subhuman , monstrous , deformed , morally deformed. 厌恶形容此人是亚人类,怪异, 变态,道德败坏。
subhuman:adj.类人的;近似人类的;低于人类的; monstrous:adj.巨大的;怪异的;荒谬的;畸形的; deformed:adj.畸形的; v.使...残缺,使...变形(deform的过去式和过去分词形式); morally:adv.道德上;有道德地;确实地;
Disgust is like indelible ink. 厌恶就像不褪色的墨水。
indelible:adj.难忘的;擦不掉的;
There's research from John Gottman on marital therapy . 在约翰·高特曼婚姻治疗的研究中显示:
marital:adj.婚姻的;夫妇间的; therapy:n.治疗,疗法;
If you look at the faces — if one of the couple shows disgust or contempt , that's a predictor that they're going to get divorced soon, whereas if they show anger, that doesn't predict anything, because if you deal with anger well, it actually is good. 观察夫妇的脸,如果其中一个人的脸表现出厌恶或蔑视, 这将预示他们很快就要离婚了。 相反,如果他们表现出愤怒这不预示任何东西。 因为如果你能处理好愤怒它实际上是好兆头。
contempt:n.轻视,蔑视;耻辱; predictor:n.[气象]预报器;预言者;
So this election is different. 所以这次选举截然不同,
Donald Trump personally uses the word "disgust" a lot. 唐纳德·特朗普口口声声使用了许多“厌恶”,
Trump:n.王牌;主牌花色;v.出王牌赢(牌);;赢;胜过;打败; personally:adv.个人;亲自;本人;就本人而言;
He's very germ-sensitive, so disgust does matter a lot — more for him, that's something unique to him — but as we demonize each other more, and again, through the Manichaean worldview , 他对细菌非常敏感所以厌恶很重要—— 更多为他,这是他的独到之处。 但是当我们多次相互丑化, 仅是通过非此即彼的二元观点看问题,
unique:adj.独特的,稀罕的;[数]唯一的;n.独一无二的人或物; demonize:v.妖魔化;使…成为魔鬼; worldview:n.世界观;
the idea that the world is a battle between good and evil as this has been ramping up, we're more likely not just to say they're wrong or I don't like them, but we say they're evil, they're satanic , they're disgusting, they're revolting . 世界将在善与恶之间斗争 从而矛盾愈演愈烈。 更多时候 我们可能不只是说他们错了或我不喜欢他们, 而是说他们是邪恶的,是撒旦, 他们很恶心,令人作呕。
evil:adj.邪恶的;不幸的;有害的;讨厌的;n.罪恶,邪恶;不幸; ramping:v.敲诈;使有斜面;(ramp的现在分词) satanic:adj.邪恶的;魔鬼的; revolting:adj.令人作呕的;极其讨厌的;v.反抗,反叛;叛逆;(revolt的现在分词)
And then we want nothing to do with them. 而后,我们拒绝与他们来往。
And that's why I think we're seeing it, for example, on campus now. 这就是为什么我们会遇到这些冲突。例如,在校园里,
campus:n.(大学)校园;大学,大学生活;校园内的草地;
We're seeing more the urge to keep people off campus, silence them, keep them away. 我们看到更多的紧急措施让人们离校。 保持沉默,让他们远离,
I'm afraid that this whole generation of young people, if their introduction to politics involves a lot of disgust, they're not going to want to be involved in politics as they get older. 恐怕整个这代年轻人, 如果在他们刚刚涉及政治时就出现这么多的厌恶, 那么在他们成熟后恐怕不会想参与政治。
involves:v.包含;需要;牵涉;牵连;影响;(使)参加,加入(involve的第三人称单数) involved:adj.有关的; v.涉及; (involve的过去式和过去分词)
CA: So how do we deal with that? CA:那么我们如何解决厌恶
Disgust. How do you defuse disgust? 如何消除厌恶呢？
defuse:v.平息;去掉…的雷管;使除去危险性;
JH: You can't do it with reasons. JH:好像不能以理服人,
I think ... 我认为...
I studied disgust for many years, and I think about emotions a lot. 我研究厌恶多年我想它与情绪密切相关。
emotions:n.强烈的感情;激情;情感;(emotion的复数)
And I think that the opposite of disgust is actually love. 我认为与厌恶相对的实际上就是爱,
Love is all about, like ... 爱就是所有,像...
Disgust is closing off, borders. 厌恶是关闭,有边界。
Love is about dissolving walls. 爱是关于消除障碍,
dissolving:adj.消溶的;毁灭性的;v.使溶解(dissolve的现在分词);
So personal relationships, I think, are probably the most powerful means we have. 我认为,个人关系可能是我们具有的 最强大的武器。
You can be disgusted by a group of people, but then you meet a particular person and you genuinely discover that they're lovely. 你可以被一群人厌恶, 随后,你遇到某一特定的人, 然后你真正地发现他们很可爱,
disgusted:adj.厌恶的;反感的;v.使作呕;使厌恶;使反感;(disgust的过去式和过去分词) genuinely:adv.真诚地;诚实地;
And then gradually that chips away or changes your category as well. 然后逐渐把你也同化了。
gradually:adv.渐渐地;逐步地; chips:炸土豆条(chip的复数) category:n.种类,分类;[数]范畴;
The tragedy is, Americans used to be much more mixed up in the their towns by left-right or politics. 可惜的是美国人以前不分左右政治, 在他们的城镇相互融合,
tragedy:n.悲惨的事;不幸;灾难;悲剧作品;
And now that it's become this great moral divide, there's a lot of evidence that we're moving to be near people who are like us politically. 但现在形成了这个伟大的道德鸿沟。 有很多证据表明谁在政治上与我们一致, 我们就会像他们靠近,
It's harder to find somebody who's on the other side . 很难找到志同道合的异党。
on the other side:另一面;在另一边;
So they're over there, they're far away. 因此,他们虽然就在附近但离我们很远,
It's harder to get to know them. 也很难去了解他们。
CA: What would you say to someone or say to Americans, people generally, about what we should understand about each other that might help us rethink for a minute this "disgust" instinct ? CA:你会告诫某人或美国人 或大众 我们应该如何了解对方, 从而有助于我们重新思考一下, 这个“厌恶”的本能？
rethink:v.重新考虑;再想;n.重新考虑;反思;新想法; for a minute:一会儿; instinct:n.本能;天性;直觉;adj.充满的;
JH: Yes. JH:对呀,
A really important thing to keep in mind — there's research by political scientist Alan Abramowitz, showing that American democracy is increasingly governed by what's called " negative partisanship ." 记住这点很重要—— 政治学家Alan Abramowitz的研究表明, 美国的民主越来越受到 所谓的“消极党派“的掌控。
democracy:n.民主,民主主义;民主政治; negative:adj.[数]负的;消极的;否定的;阴性的;n.否定;负数;[摄]底片;v.否定;拒绝; partisanship:n.党派性;党派偏见;对党派的忠诚;
That means you think, OK there's a candidate, you like the candidate, you vote for the candidate. 这意味着OK 有一个候选人, 你喜欢这个候选人投票给他/她,
But with the rise of negative advertising and social media and all sorts of other trends , increasingly, the way elections are done is that each side tries to make the other side so horrible , so awful, that you'll vote for my guy by default . 但随着负面消息 在社交媒体和各种其他媒体的传播, 选举就完蛋了。 每一方都在试图把另一方丑化成可怕,可耻的家伙, 从而投票给我方成了默认方式。
advertising:n.做广告;广告业;广告活动;v.做广告;(advertise的现在分词) trends:n.趋势;倾向;动态;动向;(trend的第三人称单数和复数) horrible:可怕的,极讨厌的, default:n.违约;拖欠;缺席;缺陷;v.违约;拖欠;缺乏;不履行;
And so as we more and more vote against the other side and not for our side, you have to keep in mind that if people are on the left, they think, "Well, I used to think that Republicans were bad, but now Donald Trump proves it. 因此越来越多的投票是反对另一边, 而不是支持我们这边。 你必须记住如果人支持左派, 他们认为“嗯,我以前觉得共和党人是坏的” 现在唐纳德·特朗普证明这点,
And now every Republican, I can paint with all the things that I think about Trump." 那么每个共和党人, 我都可以用我所了解特朗普的东西脸谱化。
And that's not necessarily true. 但这不一定是真的,
They're generally not very happy with their candidate. 他们一般也不喜欢他们的候选人,
This is the most negative partisanship election in American history. 这次选举是美国历史上最消极的党派之争。
So you have to first separate your feelings about the candidate from your feelings about the people who are given a choice. 所以首选你必须区分你对候选人的感受 和对选民的感受。
And then you have to realize that, because we all live in a separate moral world — the metaphor I use in the book is that we're all trapped in "The Matrix ," 然后你必须意识到, 为我们都生活在各自单独的道德世界中, 在我的书中使用的隐喻是我们都被困在“矩阵”中,
trapped:adj.受困的;受限制的;v.使落入险境;使陷入困境;(trap的过去分词和过去式) Matrix:n.[数]矩阵;模型;[生物][地质]基质;母体;子宫;[地质]脉石;
or each moral community is a matrix, a consensual hallucination . 或每个道德群体是一个矩阵一个自愿的幻觉世界。
consensual:adj.交感的;在双方同意下成立的; hallucination:n.幻觉,幻想;错觉;
And so if you're within the blue matrix, everything's completely compelling that the other side — they're troglodytes , they're racists, they're the worst people in the world, and you have all the facts to back that up. 所以如果你在民主党的阵营中, 一切都引人沮丧那一边, 他们是老顽固,种族主义者,是世界上最糟糕的人。 你有所有的事实作为佐证,
compelling:adj.引人入胜的; v.强迫; (compel的现在分词) troglodytes:n.鹪鹩(属)(Troglodyte的复数形式);
But somebody in the next house from yours is living in a different moral matrix. 但你的邻居生活在 不同的道德矩阵中,
They live in a different video game , and they see a completely different set of facts. 他们住在不同的游戏世界里, 他们看到完全不同的事实。
video game:n.电子游戏;
And each one sees different threats to the country. 各方看到的是对这个国家不同的威胁,
And what I've found from being in the middle and trying to understand both sides is: both sides are right. 作为中间人我试图理解双方, 并发现:双方其实都是对的。
There are a lot of threats to this country, and each side is constitutionally incapable of seeing them all. 现在很多问题威胁着这个国家, 但每一方都看不到问题的实质。
constitutionally:adv.本质地;体质上;天生; incapable:adj.不能的;无能力的;不能胜任的;
CA: So, are you saying that we almost need a new type of empathy ? CA:那么,你说的是我们几乎需要一种新型的共情心？
empathy:n.神入;移情作用;执着;
Empathy is traditionally framed as: "Oh, I feel your pain. I can put myself in your shoes." 共情传统上被描述为: “哦,我感觉到你的痛苦我可以感同身受“
traditionally:adv.传统上;习惯上;传说上;
And we apply it to the poor, the needy , the suffering. 我们把它用于穷人,有需要的人,痛苦的人,
needy:adj.贫困的;贫穷的;生活艰苦的;
We don't usually apply it to people who we feel as other, or we're disgusted by. 我们通常不会用在我们不关注的人, 或我们厌恶的人身上。
JH: No. That's right. JH:不错,是这样的。
CA: What would it look like to build that type of empathy? CA:建立那种类型的共情会是什么样子呢？
JH: Actually, I think ... JH:其实,我想...
Empathy is a very, very hot topic in psychology, and it's a very popular word on the left in particular . 共情是非常非常热门的心理话题, 特别在左派它是一个非常受欢迎的词。
in particular:尤其,特别;
Empathy is a good thing, and empathy for the preferred classes of victims. 共情是一件好事同情某种类别的受害者,
preferred:v.较喜欢;喜欢…多于…;(prefer的过去式和过去分词)
So it's important to empathize with the groups that we on the left think are so important. 所以左派同情 他们认为该同情的对象。
empathize:vt.移情;神会;
That's easy to do, because you get points for that. 那很容易因为你目标明确,
But empathy really should get you points if you do it when it's hard to do. 但共情真的应该触及到很难做到的地方。
And, I think ... 而且,我想...
You know, we had a long 50-year period of dealing with our race problems and legal discrimination , and that was our top priority for a long time and it still is important. 我们有着长达50年处理种族问题 和法律歧视的历史, 很长一段时间以来它是我们的首要任务 而且现在仍然很重要。
legal:adj.法律的;合法的;法定的; discrimination:n.歧视;区别,辨别;识别力; priority:n.优先;优先权;[数]优先次序;优先考虑的事;
But I think this year, 但是今年
I'm hoping it will make people see that we have an existential threat on our hands. 我希望人们看到 我们存在一个当务之急:
existential:adj.存在主义的;有关存在的;存在判断的;
Our left-right divide, I believe, is by far the most important divide we face. 左右党派的分裂。 我坚信这是迄今为止我们面对的最严重的分歧,
We still have issues about race and gender and LGBT, but this is the urgent need of the next 50 years, and things aren't going to get better on their own. 种族的问题性别和LGBT问题依然存在, 但这是未来50年迫切需要解决的。 问题不会自行消失
issues:n.重要议题;争论的问题;v.宣布;公布;发出;(issue的第三人称单数和复数) gender:n.性别; urgent:adj.紧急的;急迫的;
So we're going to need to do a lot of institutional reforms , and we could talk about that, but that's like a whole long, wonky conversation. 所以我们需要很多体制改革。 我们可以对此进行谈论, 但那将是一个冗长的话题。
institutional:adj.制度的; reforms:n.改革(reform的复数);v.改革(reform的单数第三人称); wonky:adj.靠不住的;摇晃的,动摇的;
But I think it starts with people realizing that this is a turning point . 但我认为当人们开始意识到这个问题就是一个转折点。
turning point:转折点;
And yes, we need a new kind of empathy. 是的,我们需要一种新的同理心,
We need to realize: this is what our country needs, and this is what you need if you don't want to — 我们需要意识到 这是我们国家需要的。 这是你需要的如果你不想变得更糟。
Raise your hand if you want to spend the next four years as angry and worried as you've been for the last year — raise your hand. 如果你想花四年的时间, 像去年一样生气和担心,请举手。
So if you want to escape from this, read Buddha , read Jesus , read Marcus Aurelius. 如果你想逃离这些, 读佛教,读耶稣阅读Marcus Aurelius,
Buddha:n.佛陀;佛像; Jesus:int.上帝啊:天哪:n.耶稣:耶稣基督:
They have all kinds of great advice for how to drop the fear, reframe things, stop seeing other people as your enemy. 他们有各种各样好的建议,教你如何放下恐惧: 重塑事实, 化敌为友,
reframe:v.再构造,再组织;重新制订;给…装上新框架;
There's a lot of guidance in ancient wisdom for this kind of empathy. 古代有很多智慧指导这种同理心。
wisdom:n.智慧;明智;才智;学问;
CA: Here's my last question: CA:这是我的最后一个问题:
Personally, what can people do to help heal ? 作为个人,什么可以帮助人们愈合伤口？
heal:v.复原;治疗(病人);使又愉快起来;(使)结束
JH: Yeah, it's very hard to just decide to overcome your deepest prejudices . JH:好的,其实真的很难克服这种根生蒂固的偏见。
overcome:vt.克服;胜过;vi.克服;得胜; prejudices:成见;偏见;歧视(prejudice的复数);
And there's research showing that political prejudices are deeper and stronger than race prejudices in the country now. 有研究显示,在这个国家, 政治偏见更顽固于 种族偏见,
So I think you have to make an effort — that's the main thing. 所以我想你必须努力——这是关键。
Make an effort to actually meet somebody. 努力去认识一些人,
Everybody has a cousin, a brother-in-law , somebody who's on the other side. 每个人都有表兄弟,姐夫或妹夫, 肯定有人在另一方。
brother-in-law:n.姐夫;妹夫;内弟;内兄;小叔;大伯;
So, after this election — wait a week or two, because it's probably going to feel awful for one of you — but wait a couple weeks, and then reach out and say you want to talk. 在这次选举后 等上一两个星期, 因为其中一方可能会感到尴尬。 但等几个星期后,接触他说你想说的话。
And before you do it, read Dale Carnegie, "How to Win Friends and Influence People" — 在你做这之前, 读一下戴尔卡内基的《如何赢得朋友和影响他人》
Influence:n.影响;势力;感化;有影响的人或事;v.影响;改变;
(Laughter) (笑声)
I'm totally serious. 我是认真的。
You'll learn techniques if you start by acknowledging, if you start by saying, "You know, we don't agree on a lot, but one thing I really respect about you, Uncle Bob," 你会学到技巧,如果你开始承认, 如果你开始说, “你知道我们有很多不同观点 但鲍勃叔叔,有一点我真的很尊重您“
techniques:n.技巧;技艺;工艺;技术;(technique的复数)
or "... about you conservatives, is ... " 或“...关于你们保守派,是...”
And you can find something. 你可以找到一些有用的东西,
If you start with some appreciation , it's like magic. 如果一开始你就表达一些赏识那将好似魔力,
appreciation:n.升值;欣赏;感谢;增值;
This is one of the main things I've learned that I take into my human relationships. 这是我学到的关键东西。 我考虑到人际关系,
I still make lots of stupid mistakes, but I'm incredibly good at apologizing now, and at acknowledging what somebody was right about. 我还是经常犯愚蠢的错误, 但我现在学会了道歉, 并承认别人是对的。
incredibly:adv.难以置信地;非常地;
And if you do that, then the conversation goes really well, and it's actually really fun. 如果你能这样做, 谈话就会进行得很好而且真得会很有趣。
CA: Jon, it's absolutely fascinating speaking with you. CA:Jon,与你谈天绝对令人振奋,
fascinating:adj.极有吸引力的;迷人的;v.深深吸引;迷住;(fascinate的现在分词)
It really does feel like the ground that we're on is a ground populated by deep questions of morality and human nature. 真正感到我们所处的环境, 是一个充满了道德和人性深层问题的地方。
populated:v.生活于; morality:n.道德;品行,美德;
Your wisdom couldn't be more relevant . 你的智慧切中要害,
relevant:adj.相关的;切题的;中肯的;有重大关系的;有意义的,目的明确的;
Thank you so much for sharing this time with us. 非常感谢和我们一同分享这个话题。
JH: Thanks, Chris.
JH: Thanks, everyone. JH:谢谢大家
(Applause) （掌声）