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DanCohen_2013X-_为了讨论_
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My name is Dan Cohen, and I am academic , as he said. |
我叫丹·科恩,我是个学者,就像主持人介绍的。 |
academic:adj.学术的;理论的;学院的;n.大学生,大学教师;学者;
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And what that means is that I argue. |
这意味着我经常需要辩论。 |
It's an important part of my life, and I like to argue. |
这是我生命中的重要组成部分,同时我喜欢辩论。 |
And I'm not just an academic, I'm a philosopher , so I like to think that I'm actually pretty good at arguing. |
我不仅仅是个学者,我也是个哲学家, 所以我觉得是实际上还是挺擅长辩论的。 |
philosopher:n.哲学家;深思的人;善于思考的人;
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But I also like to think a lot about arguing. |
但是我也经常思考有关辩论的问题。 |
And thinking about arguing, I've come across some puzzles , and one of the puzzles is that as I've been thinking about arguing over the years, and it's been decades now, I've gotten better at arguing, |
说起辩论,我曾有过一些困惑, 而其中一个困惑是 我多年前开始考虑如何辩论 至今已有二十多年了,我也变得更善于辩论, |
come across:偶然遇见;给人以…的印象; puzzles:智力游戏;谜题(puzzle的第三人称单数和复数)
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but the more that I argue and the better I get at arguing, the more that I lose. And that's a puzzle. |
但是越是辩论,我就能从中获取更多, 同时也失去更多。这就是一个困惑。 |
And the other puzzle is that I'm actually okay with that. |
而另一个困惑就是我其实觉得这没什么大不了的。 |
Why is it that I'm okay with losing and why is it that I think that good arguers are actually better at losing? |
为什么我会觉得失去一些什么也无关紧要, 为什么好的辩论者 实际上更善于失去? |
Well, there's some other puzzles. |
好了,其实我还有以下其他困惑。 |
One is, why do we argue? Who benefits from arguments? |
例如,我们为什么辩论?而谁又从辩论中获益? |
And when I think about arguments now, I'm talking about, let's call them academic arguments or cognitive arguments, where something cognitive is at stake . |
需要指出的是当我谈及辩论时,我所指的, 是所谓学术辩论亦或者认知辩论, 就一些我们知之甚少的方面进行辩论。 |
cognitive:adj.认知的,认识的; stake:n.桩,棍子;赌注;火刑;奖金;v.资助,支持;系…于桩上;把…押下打赌;
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Is this proposition true? Is this theory a good theory? |
例如我们的认知是否正确?这个理论是不是个好理论? |
proposition:n.提议;待处理的问题;任务;(美国)法律修正议案;见解;命题;v.向...提议;
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Is this a viable interpretation of the data or the text? |
对于某些数据或者文字这是不是一个很好的解释? |
viable:adj.可行的;能养活的;能生育的; interpretation:n.解释;翻译;演出;
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And so on. I'm not interested really in arguments about whose turn it is to do the dishes or who has to take out the garbage . |
以及很多其他的问题。我无心去争论 今天该谁洗碗或者谁应该倒垃圾。 |
garbage:n.垃圾;废物;
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Yeah, we have those arguments too. |
当然,我们也会为那些问题争论。 |
I tend to win those arguments, because I know the tricks. |
我经常在那类争论争论中胜出,因为我知道一些技巧。 |
But those aren't the important arguments. |
当时那些辩论没有那么重要。 |
I'm interested in academic arguments today, and here are the things that puzzle me. |
我感兴趣的是那些学术性辩论, 而接下来这是我感到困惑的事情。 |
First, what do good arguers win when they win an argument? |
首先,当人们赢得一场辩论的时候,作为一个优秀的辩论者,他从中学到了什么 |
What do I win if I convince you that utilitarianism isn't really the right framework for thinking about ethical theories? |
如果我能说服你 实用主义不能用来解释道德理论的话,我能从中获得什么呢? |
convince:v.使确信;使相信;说服,劝说; utilitarianism:n.功利主义; ethical:adj.伦理的;道德的;凭处方出售的;n.处方药;
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So what do we win when we win an argument? |
所以我们到底可以从一场辩论中学到什么? |
Even before that, what does it matter to me whether you have this idea that Kant's theory works or Mill's the right ethicist to follow? |
而且在此之前, 你是追随康德 还是密尔又有跟我什么关系呢? |
ethicist:n.伦理学家;
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It's no skin off my back whether you think functionalism is a viable theory of mind. |
无论你是否认为 功能主义是否是一个可取的思维方式都对我没有什么影响。 |
no skin off my back:我没有回来;
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So why do we even try to argue? |
所以我们为什么会想去辩论? |
Why do we try to convince other people to believe things that they don't want to believe? |
为什么我们要去说服别人 相信那些他们不愿相信的事情? |
And is that even a nice thing to do? Is that a nice way to treat another human being, try and make them think something they don't want to think? |
我们到底应不应该这么做?用这种方式去 对待他人,迫使他们 去思考一些他们不想去思考的东西? |
treat:v.治疗;处理;招待;款待;n.款待;乐事;乐趣;
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Well, my answer is going to make reference to three models for arguments. |
好了,为了回答这个问题, 让我们来参照三种不同的辩论方式。 |
reference:n.参考,提及;参考书目;证明书;v.引用;
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The first model, let's call this the dialectical model, is that we think of arguments as war, and you know what that's like. |
第一种模式,让我们称之为辩证模式, 这种模式的辩论更想是打仗,相信你们都经历过。 |
dialectical:adj.辩证的;辩证法的;方言的;
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There's a lot of screaming and shouting and winning and losing, and that's not really a very helpful model for arguing but it's a pretty common and entrenched model for arguing. |
经常充满了尖叫和大喊 而且伴有胜负, 而且伴有胜负, 却也是相当常见且”侵略性“的方式。 |
entrenched:adj.根深蒂固的;v.使处于牢固地位;牢固确立;(entrench的过去式和过去分词)
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But there's a second model for arguing: arguments as proofs . |
这里还有第二种辩论的模式:论证式 |
proofs:n.证明;证据(proof的复数);校稿;
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Think of a mathematician's argument. |
想想数学家的辩论。 |
Here's my argument. Does it work? Is it any good? |
这是我的辩论方式。它有用吗?有什么优点吗? |
Are the premises warranted ? Are the inferences valid ? |
我们论证时的前提是正确的吗?我们的推论有效吗? |
premises:n.营业场所;(企业的)房屋建筑及附属场地;(premise的复数) warranted:v.使有必要;使正当;使恰当;(warrant的过去分词和过去式) inferences:n.[数]推断,[数]推论(inference复数形式); valid:adj.有效的;有根据的;合法的;正当的;
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Does the conclusion follow from the premises? |
我们的结论是否由前提推导出来? |
conclusion:n.结论;结局;推论;
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No opposition , no adversariality, not necessarily any arguing in the adversarial sense. |
没有对立,没有敌意, 辩论并非必须在一个敌对意识下进行。 |
opposition:n.反对党;对立;在野党;对抗; necessarily:adv.必要地;必定地,必然地; adversarial:adj.对抗的;对手的,敌手的;
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But there's a third model to keep in mind that I think is going to be very helpful, and that is arguments as performances , arguments as being in front of an audience. |
但是我们还应该注意到其实还有第三种方式 我认为它非常有效, 它就是表演式辩论, 如同在观众面前辩论。 |
keep in mind:记住; performances:n.演出;[法]履行(performance的复数形式);
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We can think of a politician trying to present a position, trying to convince the audience of something. |
我们可以想想一个政客想要竞选一个职位, 或尝试去让他的观众接受他的政见。 |
politician:n.政治家;(蔑)政客;(美)政治贩;
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But there's another twist on this model that I really think is important, namely that when we argue before an audience, sometimes the audience has a more participatory role in the argument, |
但是我认为对这个模式的一个曲解有必要指出, 亦即当我们在观众面前辩论时, 有些时候观众在辩论中起了更重要的参与作用, |
twist:v.捻;扭转;曲折;扭动;n.捻;拧;扭动;搓; namely:adv.也就是;即是;换句话说; participatory:adj.供人分享的;吸引参与的;
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that is, arguments are also audiences in front of juries who make a judgment and decide the case. |
我们的如同面对了一群陪审团, 他们判断是非,裁定诉案。 |
juries:n.[法]陪审团(jury的复数);评委会; judgment:n.判断;裁判;判决书;辨别力;
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Let's call this the rhetorical model, where you have to tailor your argument to the audience at hand. |
让我们称之为修辞模式, 这种模式下你就要像裁缝一样为观众量身定制一场辩论。 |
rhetorical:adj.修辞的;修辞学的;夸张的;
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You know, presenting a sound, well-argued , tight argument in English before a francophone audience just isn't going to work. |
你要一场听上去激烈讨论,严谨论证的 英语辩论,而听众是一群法国人, 那就是白费力气。 |
well-argued:论证充分的; francophone:n.讲法语的人;adj.讲法语的;
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So we have these models -- argument as war, argument as proof, and argument as performance. |
你看我们有这么多辩论模式--战争式辩论, 论证式辩论,表演式辩论。 |
Of those three, the argument as war is the dominant one. |
在这三种模式中,战争式辩论占了主导。 |
dominant:adj.显性的;占优势的;支配的,统治的;n.显性;
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It dominates how we talk about arguments, it dominates how we think about arguments, and because of that, it shapes how we argue, our actual conduct in arguments. |
它使每当我们提起辩论,就是这种模式。 这种模式基本代表了我们对辩论的理解, 也因此,它影响了我们辩论的方式, 我们在辩论时的表现。 |
dominates:v.支配;控制;左右;影响;(dominate的第三人称单数) conduct:v.实施;执行;表现;引导;n.举止;管理方法;经营方式;实施办法;
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Now, when we talk about arguments, yeah, we talk in a very militaristic language. |
如今当我们谈起辩论, 我们就会进入一种军国主义的论调。 |
militaristic:adj.军国主义的;
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We want strong arguments, arguments that have a lot of punch , arguments that are right on target. |
我们需要具有攻击性的辩论,辩论时就如同给对手的脸上来上几拳, 最好每个论点都直击要害。 |
punch:n.冲床; v.拳打; (用打孔器等)打孔;
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We want to have our defenses up and our strategies all in order. |
我们想把自己武装起来,组织好策略去应对。 |
strategies:n.策略;行动计划;部署;战略;(strategy的复数)
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We want killer arguments. |
我们想要击败对手。 |
That's the kind of argument we want. |
那就是我们想要的辩论。 |
It is the dominant way of thinking about arguments. |
这就是一种主流的辩论观。 |
When I'm talking about arguments, that's probably what you thought of, the adversarial model. |
当我说到辩论的时候,很可能 你马上想到的就是敌对模式。 |
But the war metaphor , the war paradigm or model for thinking about arguments, has, I think, deforming effects on how we argue. |
战争模式这个比方, 或者说是对辩论模式的认知, 在我看来正在削弱我们的辩论。 |
metaphor:n.暗喻,隐喻;比喻说法; paradigm:n.范例;词形变化表; deforming:adj.致畸形的;n.使...变形;毁掉(deform的过去分词);
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First it elevates tactics over substance . |
首先它使辩论的技巧凌驾与观点本身。 |
elevates:vt.提升;举起;振奋情绪等;提升…的职位; tactics:n.战术:策略:手段:兵法(tactic的复数) substance:n.物质;实质;主旨;物品;
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You can take a class in logic , argumentation . |
你可以去上关于逻辑与辩论的课程。 |
logic:n.逻辑;逻辑学;逻辑性;adj.逻辑的; argumentation:n.论证;争论;辩论;
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You learn all about the subterfuges that people use to try and win arguments, the false steps. |
你可以学到所有人们在辩论中可以使用的诡计 以力求去赢得一场辩论,多么愚蠢的方式啊。 |
subterfuges:n.托词;借口;诡计;
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It magnifies the us-versus-them aspect of it. |
这放大了辩论中我们与他们的对立关系。 |
magnifies:vt.放大;赞美;夸大;vi.放大;有放大能力; aspect:n.方面;层面;外观;方位;
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It makes it adversarial. It's polarizing . |
这使辩论变得敌对。如同以偏振镜来看问题。 |
polarizing:v.(使)两极化,截然对立; (polarize的现在分词)
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And the only foreseeable outcomes are triumph , glorious triumph , or abject , ignominious defeat. |
而唯一可预见的结果 就是胜利,一场欢欣鼓舞的胜利,抑或是卑怯,可耻的失败。 |
foreseeable:adj.可预知的;能预测的; outcomes:n.结果;成果;后果;出路;(outcome的复数) triumph:v.战胜;成功;打败;n.巨大成功;重大成就;伟大胜利;喜悦; glorious:adj.光荣的;辉煌的;极好的; abject:adj.卑鄙的;可怜的;不幸的; ignominious:adj.可耻的;下流的;
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I think those are deforming effects, and worst of all, it seems to prevent things like negotiation or deliberation or compromise or collaboration . |
我认为那是一种变形效果,最遭的是, 这种变形使这种辩论本身看上去不是那么像谈判, 审议或妥协 抑或者是一种协作。 |
negotiation:n.谈判;转让;顺利的通过; deliberation:n.审议;考虑;从容;熟思; compromise:n.妥协;折中;互让;和解;v.妥协;违背(原则);达不到(标准);使陷入危险; collaboration:n.合作;勾结;通敌;
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Think about that one. Have you ever entered an argument thinking, "Let's see if we can hash something out rather than fight it out . What can we work out together?" |
在参加辩论的时候,你有没有想过 让我们看看能不能共同敲定一些事情, 而非由一方说服另一方。有什么是我们可以共同协作的? |
hash:n.剁碎的食物;混杂,拼凑;重新表述;v.搞糟,把…弄乱;切细;推敲; fight it out:据理力争;一决雌雄;
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And I think the argument-as-war metaphor inhibits those other kinds of resolutions to argumentation. |
我觉得辩论如战争的这个比喻 已经盖过了其他的辩论形式。 |
inhibits:抑制;阻止; resolutions:n.决议(resolution的复数);解决;决心;[物]分辨率;
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And finally , this is really the worst thing, arguments don't seem to get us anywhere. |
最终,最糟糕的是, 通过争论我们不会学到什么东西。 |
finally:adv.终于;最终;(用于列举)最后;彻底地;
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They're dead ends. They are roundabouts or traffic jams or gridlock in conversation. |
这样的辩论就如同一个死胡同。交流中的环状公路 交通阻塞或者一个僵局。 |
roundabouts:adj.迂回的,绕道的;圆滚滚的;n.迂回路线;环状交叉路口; gridlock:vi.交通阻塞;n.僵局;极端严重的全面交通壅塞;
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We don't get anywhere. |
我们停在原地,到不了任何其他地方。 |
Oh, and one more thing, and as an educator, this is the one that really bothers me: |
噢,其实还有一件事情,作为一个教育工作者, 这里还有一个问题困扰了我很久: |
bothers:n.麻烦; v.给(某人)造成麻烦(或痛苦); (bother的第三人称单数和复数)
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If argument is war, then there's an implicit equation of learning with losing. |
如果辩论是场战争,那么这也隐含着 学习等于失去的意思。 |
implicit:adj.含蓄的;暗示的;盲从的; equation:n.方程式,等式;相等;[化学]反应式;
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And let me explain what I mean. |
让我解释一下我的观点。 |
Suppose you and I have an argument. |
比如说,你和我进行了一场辩论。 |
Suppose:v.推断:假定:假设:设想:
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You believe a proposition, P, and I don't. |
你主张观点,P,但是我不同意。 |
And I say, "Well why do you believe P?" |
然后我说,“好了,为什么你相信P” |
And you give me your reasons. |
然后你给出了你的理由。 |
And I object and say, "Well, what about ...?" |
然后我反对并说,“好,那关于。。。?” |
And you answer my objection . |
然后你回答我的反对。 |
objection:n.反对;反对的理由;异议;
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And I have a question: "Well, what do you mean? |
然后我提问:“额,你的意思是? |
How does it apply over here?" And you answer my question. |
那么在这个地方他如何解释?” 然后你又回答了我的问题。 |
apply:v.申请;涂,敷;应用;适用;请求;
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Now, suppose at the end of the day, |
现在,假设一天快结束了, |
I've objected, I've questioned, |
我反对,我提问, |
I've raised all sorts of counter-considerations, and in every case you've responded to my satisfaction . |
我给出了所有反对问题, 然后在所有的问题上你都让我满意了。 |
responded:v.回答,回应;作出反应;响应;反应灵敏;(respond的过去式和过去分词) satisfaction:n.满意,满足;赔偿;乐事;赎罪;
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And so at the end of the day, I say, "You know what? I guess you're right. P." |
然后在一天快要结束的时候,我说, ”你知道吗?我觉得在P这个观点上你没准是对的。“ |
So I have a new belief. And it's not just any belief, but it's a well-articulated, examined, it's a battle-tested belief. |
所以我有了新的见解。但是这不仅仅是一个见解, 而是一个阐述清楚的,经过验证的, 同时也是经得起挑战的见解。 |
Great cognitive gain. Okay. Who won that argument? |
多好的结果啊。好了。那谁赢了这场辩论呢? |
Well, the war metaphor seems to force us into saying you won, even though I'm the only one who made any cognitive gain. |
好了,将辩论作为战争的人们会强迫我们承认 提出见解那方赢了,即使我才是那个获得新见解的人。 |
What did you gain cognitively from convincing me? |
那么作为说服我的人,他在获得了什么新的见解吗? |
cognitively:adv.认知地; convincing:adj.令人信服的; v.使确信; (convince的现在分词)
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Sure, you got some pleasure out of it, maybe your ego stroked , maybe you get some professional status in the field. |
没错,你从中获得了一些愉悦,或许一些自我安慰 或许在你的领域里获得了一些专业声誉。 |
stroked:n.中风; vt.抚摸; vi.击球; professional:adj.专业的;职业的;职业性的;n.专业人员;职业运动员; status:n.地位;状态;情形;重要身份;
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This guy's a good arguer . |
这家伙是个辩论好手。 |
arguer:n.争辩者;辩论者;
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But cognitively, now -- just from a cognitive point of view -- who was the winner? |
但是从认知角度而言,仅仅从认识的角度来看,谁是胜利者? |
point of view:观点;见地;立场;
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The war metaphor forces us into thinking that you're the winner and I lost, even though I gained. |
视辩论如战争的人们会强迫我们认为 你是胜者而我是败者, 即使是我也有所得。 |
And there's something wrong with that picture. |
这个认识本身存在一些错误。 |
And that's the picture I really want to change if we can. |
同时我也想去改变这个认识。 |
So how can we find ways to make arguments yield something positive ? |
所以我们如何去进行辩论 并使之有一些积极的影响呢? |
yield:n.产量;产出;利润;v.屈服;让步;放弃;提供; positive:adj.积极的;[数]正的,[医][化学]阳性的;确定的;n.正数;[摄]正片;
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What we need is new exit strategies for arguments. |
我们所需要的是一个新的方式来终止一场辩论。 |
But we're not going to have new exit strategies for arguments until we have new entry approaches to arguments. |
但是我们没有办法找到一个新的方式去终止辩论, 除非我们可以找到一个新的方式去开始一场辩论。 |
approaches:v.靠近,接近; n.方式,方法,态度;
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We need to think of new kinds of arguments. |
我们需要一种新的辩论方式。 |
In order to do that, well, |
为了找到这种新的方式, |
I don't know how to do that. |
可是我不知道应该怎么做。 |
That's the bad news. |
这是个坏消息。 |
The argument-as-war metaphor is just, it's a monster . |
视辩论如战争的观点本身就如同是一个怪兽。 |
monster:n.怪物;恶魔;庞然大物;adj.巨大的;
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It's just taken up habitation in our mind, and there's no magic bullet that's going to kill it. |
这已经成为我们的思维定式了, 而且也没有什么快速有效的办法可以解决它。 |
habitation:n.居住;住所; magic bullet:n.(针对某种疾病的)灵丹妙药;(解决某一问题的)灵丹妙药;
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There's no magic wand that's going to make it disappear . |
我们没有办法就这样让他消失不见。 |
wand:n.魔杖; v.用扫描笔在…上扫描条形码; disappear:v.消失;失踪;不复存在;
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I don't have an answer. |
我不知道该怎么解决。 |
But I have some suggestions, and here's my suggestion. |
但是我确实有一些建议, 这里是我的建议。 |
If we want to think of new kinds of arguments, what we need to do is think of new kinds of arguers. |
如果我想要创造一种崭新的辩论方式, 那么我们需要的其实是新的辩论者。 |
So try this. |
所以尝试一下这个。 |
Think of all the roles that people play in arguments. |
想象一下人们在辩论中所扮演的角色。 |
There's the proponent and the opponent in an adversarial, dialectical argument. |
我需要支持者与反对者 才能进行一场意见相反的,辩证性的辩论。 |
proponent:n.支持者;建议者;提出认证遗嘱者; opponent:n.对手;竞争者;反对者;阻止者;adj.反对的;
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There's the audience in rhetorical arguments. |
在修饰性辩论中,我们需要有观众。 |
There's the reasoner in arguments as proofs. |
在证明式论证中我们需要推理者。 |
All these different roles. Now, can you imagine an argument in which you are the arguer, but you're also in the audience watching yourself argue? |
所有这些不同角色。现在,你可以想象在一场辩论中, 你既是辩论者,也是观众 看着你自己的表现? |
Can you imagine yourself watching yourself argue, losing the argument, and yet still, at the end of the argument, say, "Wow, that was a good argument." |
你能想象你自己看着你自己辩论, 在辩论中落败,却仍然在辩论结束后, 觉得,“哦,这是一场不错的辩论。” |
Can you do that? I think you can. |
你能做到吗?我觉得你能。 |
And I think, if you can imagine that kind of argument where the loser says to the winner and the audience and the jury can say, "Yeah, that was a good argument," |
我觉得如果你可以想象一场辩论, 败者可以对胜者, 对观众以及裁判们说 “噢,这是一场不错的辩论,” |
jury:n.[法]陪审团;评判委员会;adj.应急的;
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then you have imagined a good argument. |
即使如此你也已经可以想象一场不错的辩论了。 |
And more than that, I think you've imagined a good arguer, an arguer that's worthy of the kind of arguer you should try to be. |
而且不仅如此,我想你已经可以想象到 一个好的辩论者,一个你希望 成为的辩论者。 |
worthy:adj.值得的; n.杰出人物;
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Now, I lose a lot of arguments. |
现在,我输掉了很多辩论。 |
It takes practice to become a good arguer in the sense of being able to benefit from losing, but fortunately , I've had many, many colleagues who have been willing to step up and provide that practice for me. |
要成为一个好的辩论者是需要练习的 尤其是从失败中汲取教训这一点。 但是幸运的是,我有很多很多同事 他们愿意为我参与进来并和我一起练习成为好的辩论者。 |
fortunately:adv.幸运地; colleagues:n.同事;同行(colleague的复数);
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Thank you. |
谢谢。 |
(Applause) |
谢谢。 |