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ChristianeAmanpour_2017G-_在假新闻的时代，要如何寻求真相？_
Chis Anderson: Christiane, great to have you here. 克里斯安德森:克莉丝蒂安, 很高兴你今天能来。
So you've had this amazing viewpoint , and perhaps it's fair to say that in the last few years, there have been some alarming developments that you're seeing. 所以,你有个很棒的观点, 也许可以说,在过去的几年间, 你看见了一些令人担忧的发展。
viewpoint:n.观点;角度;看法;
What's alarmed you most? 最让你担忧的是什么？
Christiane Amanpour: Well, just listening to the earlier speakers, 克莉丝蒂安艾曼普:嗯, 听了前几位讲者的演说,
I can frame it in what they've been saying: climate change, for instance -- cities, the threat to our environment and our lives. 我可以借用他们所说的来表达: 比如,气候改变、城市, 对我们的环境 以及生活的威胁。
frame:n.框架; v.设计; adj.有木架的; instance:n.实例;情况;建议;v.举...为例;
It basically also boils down to understanding the truth and to be able to get to the truth of what we're talking about in order to really be able to solve it. 基本上,可以归结到了解真相, 并能够针对我们 谈论的议题去探究真相, 才能够真正去解决它。
basically:adv.主要地,基本上;
So if 99.9 percent of the science on climate is empirical , scientific evidence , but it's competing almost equally with a handful of deniers , that is not the truth; that is the epitome of fake news. 所以,如果 99.9% 的气候科学 都是实证的、科学的证据, 但却在与少数驳斥者 几乎平头式地竞争, 那就不是真相, 而是假新闻的缩影。
empirical:adj.经验主义的,完全根据经验的;实证的; scientific:adj.科学的,系统的; evidence:n.证据,证明;迹象;明显;v.证明; competing:adj.相互冲突的;相互矛盾的;v.竞争;对抗;参加比赛;(compete的现在分词) deniers:n.否认者;极微量;极少量的金额;法国旧银币; epitome:n.缩影;摘要;象征; fake:n.假货;骗子;假动作;v.捏造;假装…的样子;adj.伪造的;
And so for me, the last few years -- certainly this last year -- has crystallized the notion of fake news in a way that's truly alarming and not just some slogan to be thrown around. 对我而言,过去几年, 特别是最近这一年, 假新闻的概念被以一种 很让人担忧的方式给具体化了, 不再只是随处喊喊的口号而已。
crystallized:adj.裹有糖霜的;蜜饯的;v.结晶(crystalize的过去分词); notion:n.观念;信念;理解; slogan:n.口号;标语;
Because when you can't distinguish between the truth and fake news, you have a very much more difficult time trying to solve some of the great issues that we face. 因为当你无法区别 真相和假新闻的差别时, 你就会更难去试图解决 我们面对的一些重大议题。
distinguish:vt.区分;辨别;使杰出,使表现突出;vi.区别,区分;辨别; issues:n.重要议题;争论的问题;v.宣布;公布;发出;(issue的第三人称单数和复数)
CA: Well, you've been involved in this question of, what is balance, what is truth, what is impartiality , for a long time. 克里斯:你涉入 什么是平衡、什么是真相、 什么是公正这些问题, 已经很长一段时间。
involved:adj.有关的; v.涉及; (involve的过去式和过去分词) impartiality:n.公正,公平;不偏不倚;
You were on the front lines reporting the Balkan Wars 25 years ago. 25 年前,你在巴尔干 战争的前线做报导。
Balkan:adj.巴尔干半岛的;
And back then, you famously said, by calling out human right abuses , you said, "Look, there are some situations one simply cannot be neutral about, because when you're neutral, you are an accomplice ." 那时,你说过一句名言, 大声说出人权被侵犯, 你说:「听着,有些状况 就是无法中立去看待, 因为当你中立时, 你就是共犯。」
famously:adv.著名地;极好地; human right:n.人权; abuses:v.滥用;虐待;辱骂(abuse的三单形式);n.滥用;虐待;暴行(abuse的复数); neutral:n.中立国; adj.中立的; accomplice:n.同谋者,[法]共犯;
So, do you feel that today's journalists aren't heeding that advice about balance? 你觉得现今的记者没有留意到 那个关于平衡的建议吗？
journalists:n.新闻记者(journalist的复数); heeding:v.留心,注意,听从(劝告或警告);(heed的现在分词)
CA: Well, look, I think for journalists, objectivity is the golden rule . 克莉丝蒂安:我认为对记者而言, 客观是黄金法则。
objectivity:n.客观;客观性; golden rule:n.成功之重要原则;指导原则;
But I think sometimes we don't understand what objectivity means. 但我认为,有时我们 并不了解客观的意义。
And I actually learned this very, very young in my career , which was during the Balkan Wars. 我在职涯的极早期已学到了这一点, 当时是在巴尔干战争的期间。
career:n.职业;事业;生涯;经历;
I was young then. 那时我很年轻。
It was about 25 years ago. 大约是 25 年前。
And what we faced was the wholesale violation , not just of human rights, but all the way to ethnic cleansing and genocide , and that has been adjudicated in the highest war crimes court in the world. 当时我们面对的是大规模的违反, 而是一路到排除异族和种族灭绝, 已经被世界最高战犯法庭裁决了。
wholesale:n.批发; v.大量地,大批地; v.批发; adj.批发的; violation:n.违反;妨碍,侵害;违背;强奸; ethnic cleansing:n.(尤用于新闻报道)种族清洗; genocide:n.种族灭绝;灭绝整个种族的大屠杀; adjudicated:v.判决,裁决(争执等);(比赛中)裁判,评判;(adjudicate的过去分词和过去式)
So, we know what we were seeing. 我们知道我们看见了什么。
Trying to tell the world what we were seeing brought us accusations of bias , of siding with one side, of not seeing the whole side, and just, you know, trying to tell one story. 为了试图告诉世界我们看见了什么, 导致我们被控诉,说我们有偏见、 选边站、 不看整体大局, 而只述说单方片面的故事。
accusations:n.控告;起诉;告发;谴责;(accusation的复数) bias:adv.使有偏见;n.偏见;偏心;偏爱;v.使有偏见;使偏向;adj.斜的;[电]偏动的;
I particularly and personally was accused of siding with, for instance, the citizens of Sarajevo -- "siding with the Muslims," 我个人还特别遭到控诉, 比如说我站在塞拉耶佛市民的那一边, 说我「站在穆斯林的那一边」,
particularly:adv.特别地,独特地;详细地,具体地;明确地,细致地; personally:adv.个人;亲自;本人;就本人而言; accused:v.控告;控诉;谴责;(accuse的过去分词和过去式) Sarajevo:n.萨拉热窝(位于南斯拉夫中部);
because they were the minority who were being attacked by Christians on the Serb side in this area. 因为在那里他们是被攻击的少数, 被与塞尔维亚同一阵线的
minority:n.少数民族;少数派;未成年;adj.少数的;属于少数派的; Serb:adj.塞尔维亚的;塞尔维亚人的,塞尔维亚语的;n.塞尔维亚人,塞尔维亚语;
And it worried me. 那让我忧心。
It worried me that I was being accused of this. 我忧心遭受这样的指控,
I thought maybe I was wrong, maybe I'd forgotten what objectivity was. 心想,也许我错了, 也许我忘了客观是什么。
But then I started to understand that what people wanted was actually not to do anything -- not to step in, not to change the situation, not to find a solution . 接着我开始了解,人们想要的 其实是什么都不做, 不要涉入, 不要去改变局势, 不要去找解决方案。
solution:n.解决方案;溶液;溶解;解答;
And so, their fake news at that time, their lie at that time -- including our government's, our democratically elected government's, with values and principles of human rights -- 所以,那时他们的假新闻, 那时说谎的 包括我们的政府,我们的民选政府, 有着人权价值和原则的政府,
democratically:adv.民主地;民主主义地; principles:n.原则;主义;本质;政策;(principle的复数)
their lie was to say that all sides are equally guilty , that this has been centuries of ethnic hatred , whereas we knew that wasn't true, that one side had decided to kill, slaughter and ethnically cleanse another side. 他们的谎言是,每一方都同等有罪, 这是由数百世纪的民族仇恨造成的; 而我们知道那并非事实, 而是一方铁了心要屠杀另一方, 灭绝异族。
guilty:adj.有罪的;内疚的; hatred:n.仇恨;憎恨;厌恶; whereas:conj.然而;鉴于;反之; slaughter:vt.屠宰,屠杀;杀戮;使惨败;n.屠宰,屠杀;杀戮;消灭; ethnically:adv.人种上;民族上; cleanse:v.清洁(皮肤);清洗(伤口);使免除(罪过);使净化;
So that is where, for me, 所以,就在当时我了解到
I understood that objectivity means giving all sides an equal hearing and talking to all sides, but not treating all sides equally, not creating a forced moral equivalence or a factual equivalence. 客观意味着 并跟每一方都谈, 而不是平等对待每一方, 不是勉强造出道德等值或事实等值。
treating:v.以…态度对待;把…看作;处理;讨论;(treat的现在分词) moral:n.寓意;品行;教益;adj.道德的;道义上的;道德上的;品行端正的; equivalence:n.等值;相等; factual:adj.事实的;真实的;
And when you come up against that crisis point in situations of grave violations of international and humanitarian law, if you don't understand what you're seeing, if you don't understand the truth and if you get trapped in the fake news paradigm , then you are an accomplice. 当你面对国际法及人权法 被重大违反的危机关口, 如果你不了解你看到了什么, 如果你不了解真相, 如果你被假新闻写作典范给困住, 那么你就是个共犯。
come up against:v.碰到;遭遇; crisis:n.危机;危险期;决定性时刻;adj.危机的;用于处理危机的; grave:adj.重大的;严肃的;黯淡的;n.墓穴,坟墓;死亡;v.雕刻;铭记; violations:n.违反,妨碍;违规或不雅行为(violation的复数形式); humanitarian:adj.人道主义的;博爱的;基督凡人论的;n.人道主义者;基督凡人论者; trapped:adj.受困的;受限制的;v.使落入险境;使陷入困境;(trap的过去分词和过去式) paradigm:n.范例;词形变化表;
And I refuse to be an accomplice to genocide. 而我拒绝成为种族屠杀的共犯。
(Applause) （掌声）
CH: So there have always been these propaganda battles, and you were courageous in taking the stand you took back then. 克里斯:所以,宣传战一直存在着, 而你那时有勇气采取了坚定的立场。
propaganda:n.宣传;传道总会; courageous:adj.有胆量的,勇敢的;
Today, there's a whole new way, though, in which news seems to be becoming fake. 不过,现今有了全新的 新闻变成假新闻的方式。
How would you characterize that? 你会如何描述它的特性？
characterize:v.描述;是…的特征;以…为典型;使…具有特点(或最引人注目的特征);
CA: Well, look -- I am really alarmed. 克莉丝蒂安:嗯,我真的很忧心。
And everywhere I look, you know, we're buffeted by it. 放眼任何地方, 我们都不断遭受它的冲击。
buffeted:斗争;奋勇前进;连续猛击(buffet的过去式和过去分词);
Obviously, when the leader of the free world, when the most powerful person in the entire world, which is the president of the United States -- this is the most important, most powerful country in the whole world, 显然,当自由世界的领袖, 当整个世界最有权势的人, 也就是美国总统── 美国是全世界最重要、 最有权势的国家,
United:adj.联合的; v.联合,团结; (unite的过去分词和过去式)
economically , militarily , politically in every which way -- and it seeks to, obviously, promote its values and power around the world. 在经济、军事、政治, 每个面向都是── 很显然寻求要在全世界 提升价值和权势。
economically:adv.经济地;在经济上;节俭地; militarily:adv.在军事上;从军事角度;以武力;以军事行动; politically:adv.政治上; seeks:v.寻求;寻找;探索;搜索; promote:v.促进;推动;促销;提升;晋升;
So we journalists, who only seek the truth -- 所以我们这些只寻求真相的记者,
I mean, that is our mission -- we go around the world looking for the truth in order to be everybody's eyes and ears, people who can't go out in various parts of the world 怀抱我们的使命, 跑遍世界去寻找真相, 要成为那些无法去到 世界各地的人的眼睛和耳朵,
mission:n.使命,任务;代表团;布道;v.派遣;向…传教;
to figure out what's going on about things that are vitally important to everybody's health and security. 我们要找出发生了哪些事, 哪些事会大大影响 每个人的健康与安全。
vitally:adv.极其;紧要地;生死攸关地;
So when you have a major world leader accusing you of fake news, it has an exponential ripple effect . 所以,当那个主要的世界领袖 会引起呈指数成长的涟漪效应,
accusing:adj.谴责的;指责的;v.控告;控诉;谴责;(accuse的现在分词) exponential:adj.指数的;n.指数; ripple effect:n.连锁反应;
And what it does is, it starts to chip away at not just our credibility , but at people's minds -- people who look at us, and maybe they're thinking, "Well, if the president of the United States says that, maybe somewhere there's a truth in there." 造成的结果是开始一点一点削弱 不只我们的信用, 还有人们的理智与主见。 人们看着我们,也许他们在想, 「嗯,如果美国总统都那样说了, 也许或多或少是真的。」
chip:v.削,凿;削成碎片;剥落;碎裂;n.[电子]芯片;筹码;碎片;(食物的)小片;薄片; credibility:n.可信性;确实性;
CH: Presidents have always been critical of the media -- 克里斯:总统们向来都对媒体很不满──
critical:adj.鉴定的;[核]临界的;批评的,爱挑剔的;危险的;决定性的;评论的; media:n.媒体;媒质(medium的复数);血管中层;浊塞音;中脉;
CA: Not in this way. 克莉丝蒂安:不是现在这样的方式。
CH: So, to what extent -- 克里斯:所以,到什么程度──
extent:n.程度;范围;长度;
(Laughter) （笑声）
(Applause) （掌声）
CH: I mean, someone a couple years ago looking at the avalanche of information pouring through Twitter and Facebook and so forth, might have said, "Look, our democracies are healthier than they've ever been. 克里斯:我是说,几年前 资讯从 Twitter 及 Facebook 等地涌入, 他可能会说: 「我们未曾像现在这么民主。
avalanche:n.雪崩;vt.雪崩;vi.崩塌; pouring:v.倾倒;倾泻;连续流出;倒出;喷发;(pour的现在分词) democracies:民主;
There's more news than ever. 新闻量远多于过去。
Of course presidents will say what they'll say, but everyone else can say what they will say. 当然,总统们会说他们要说的话, 但其他人也都可以说自己想说的。
What's not to like? How is there an extra danger?" 有什么不好？为什么 会存在额外的危险呢？」
extra:adj.额外的:n.额外的事物:adv.额外:另外:
CA: So, I wish that was true. 克莉丝蒂安:我希望那是真的。
I wish that the proliferation of platforms upon which we get our information meant that there was a proliferation of truth and transparency and depth and accuracy . 我希望 资讯来源平台的数量激增 意味着真相和透明度激增, 深度和正确性也激增。
proliferation:n.增殖,扩散;分芽繁殖; platforms:n.平台; v.把…放在台上; transparency:n.透明,透明度;幻灯片;有图案的玻璃; accuracy:n.[数]精确度,准确性;
But I think the opposite has happened. 但我认为,实际发生的恰恰相反。
You know, I'm a little bit of a Luddite , I will confess . 我承认自己有点算是卢德份子。 （注:反对技术革新的人）
a little bit of a:一点点了; Luddite:n.鲁德分子;强烈反对提高机械化和自动化者; confess:v.承认;坦白;忏悔;供认;
Even when we started to talk about the information superhighway , which was a long time ago, before social media, Twitter and all the rest of it, 即使当我们开始谈到资讯高速公路, 那是很久以前了, 在社交媒体、Twitter、 这类平台之前,
information superhighway:n.信息高速公路; all the rest:其他所有相关信息;
I was actually really afraid that that would put people into certain lanes and tunnels and have them just focusing on areas of their own interest instead of seeing the broad picture. 其实那时我很害怕, 怕它会把人们放到某些线道或隧道, 使他们只聚焦在自己感兴趣的领域, 而不是放宽视野去看大局。
lanes:n.线路,跑道(lane复数形式); tunnels:n.[交]隧道; v.凿隧道;
And I'm afraid to say that with algorithms, with logarithms , with whatever the "-ithms" are that direct us into all these particular channels of information, that seems to be happening right now. 我很怕演算法、对数 这类东西被用来 引领我们到特定的资讯管道, 而这正似乎是现在正在发生的情形。
logarithms:n.[数]对数(logarithm的复数形式);
I mean, people have written about this phenomenon . 人们已经在写关于这个现象的文章,
phenomenon:n.现象;杰出的人;非凡的人(或事物);
People have said that yes, the internet came, its promise was to exponentially explode our access to more democracy , more information, less bias, more varied information. 人们说,是的,网际网路到来了, 它承诺让我们能大量接触更多民主、 更多资讯、 较少偏见、 和更多样化的资讯。
exponentially:adv.以指数方式; explode:v.爆炸;爆裂;勃然(大怒);突然发生(危险); democracy:n.民主,民主主义;民主政治; varied:adj.多变的;各式各样的;杂色的;v.改变;使多样化;(vary的过去式和过去分词)
And, in fact, the opposite has happened. 但事实上,发生的情形相反。
And so that, for me, is incredibly dangerous. 所以对我来说,那是相当危险的。
incredibly:adv.难以置信地;非常地;
And again, when you are the president of this country and you say things, it also gives leaders in other undemocratic countries the cover to affront us even worse, 同样的,若你身为国家总统, 你的发言会掩护 其他不民主国家的领袖, 让他们能进一步冒犯我们,
undemocratic:adj.不民主的,非民主的; affront:vt.冒犯,有意冒犯;面对;公开侮辱;n.轻蔑;公开侮辱;
and to really whack us -- and their own journalists -- with this bludgeon of fake news. 挥着假新闻的棍棒扎扎实实痛击我们 和他们自己的记者。
whack:v.重打;猛击;击败;削减;n.重击;尝试;份儿;机会; bludgeon:vt.恫吓;用棍棒打;猛烈攻击;n.棍棒;攻击;vi.恫吓;用棍棒打;猛烈攻击;
CH: To what extent is what happened, though, in part, just an unintended consequence , that the traditional media that you worked in had this curation-mediation role, where certain norms were observed , 克里斯:单就已经发生的事来说, 非蓄意的后果到了什么程度？ 你所从事的传统媒体業 扮演着调解和处理资讯的角色, 遵从某些基准,
unintended:adj.无意识的;非计划中的; consequence:n.结果;重要性;推论; traditional:传统的,惯例的, norms:n.[标准]标准,规范;基准(norm复数形式); observed:adj.观察的;观测的;v.观察;遵守;注意到(observe的过去分词形式);
certain stories would be rejected because they weren't credible , but now that the standard for publication and for amplification is just interest, attention, excitement , click, "Did it get clicked on?" 驳回一些不可信的故事。 但现在 出版和散播的标准 只剩下有趣、注意力、 刺激、点阅数, 「它被点阅了吗？」
rejected:adj.被拒的;不合格的;v.拒绝,驳回;(reject的过去式和过去分词) credible:adj.可靠的,可信的; standard:n.标准;水准;旗;度量衡标准;adj.标准的;合规格的;公认为优秀的; publication:n.出版物;发表;公布;发行; amplification:n.[电子]放大(率);扩大;详述; excitement:n.兴奋;刺激;令人兴奋的事物;
'"Send it out there!" 「把它发出去！」
and that's what's -- is that part of what's caused the problem? 那是造成问题的部分原因吗？
CA: I think it's a big problem, and we saw this in the election of 2016, where the idea of "clickbait" was very sexy and very attractive , and so all these fake news sites and fake news items 克莉丝蒂安:我认为这是个大问题, 2016 年的大选已看到这现象, 那时,点阅诱饵是非常性感、 非常有吸引力的, 因此所有这些假新闻网站 及一则则假新闻
attractive:adj.吸引人的;有魅力的;引人注目的; sites:n.网站(site的复数);遗址,举办地点;v.使...位于(site的单三形式); items:n.项目;一件商品(或物品);一则,一条(新闻)(item的复数)
were not just haphazardly and by happenstance being put out there, there's been a whole industry in the creation of fake news in parts of Eastern Europe, wherever, and you know, it's planted in real space and in cyberspace . 并不是随意或偶然被放在那里, 而是有一整个产業在制造假新闻, 在部份东欧地区,无论是哪, 假新闻被植入实体和网路的空间中。
haphazardly:adv.偶然地,随意地;杂乱地; happenstance:n.意外事件,偶然事件; creation:n.创造,创作;创作物,产物; Eastern:adj.东方的;向东的;东部的;东方国家的;n.东方人;东正教信徒; cyberspace:n.网络空间;赛博空间;
So I think that, also, the ability of our technology to proliferate this stuff at the speed of sound or light, just about -- we've never faced that before. 所以我也认为, 我们的科技有能力 将这类东西扩散出去, 扩散的速度几近音速或光速, 这是我们未曾面对过的。
technology:n.技术;工艺;术语; proliferate:vi.增殖;扩散;激增;vt.使激增; stuff:n.东西:物品:基本特征:v.填满:装满:标本:
And we've never faced such a massive amount of information which is not curated by those whose profession leads them to abide by the truth, to fact-check and to maintain a code of conduct and a code of professional ethics . 我们未曾面对过 未被那些身负把关职则、 必须确认事实的真相、 并维持职業伦理准则 与行为准则的那些人
massive:adj.大量的;巨大的,厚重的;魁伟的; curated:v.当馆长(curate的过去分词); abide:vt.忍受,容忍;停留;遵守;vi.持续;忍受;停留; maintain:v.维持;保持;维修;保养;坚持(意见); conduct:v.实施;执行;表现;引导;n.举止;管理方法;经营方式;实施办法; professional:adj.专业的;职业的;职业性的;n.专业人员;职业运动员; ethics:n.伦理学;伦理观;道德标准;
CH: Many people here may know people who work at Facebook or Twitter and Google and so on. 克里斯:这里许多人可能认识 在 Facebook、Twitter、 Google 等公司工作的人。
Google:谷歌;谷歌搜索引擎;
They all seem like great people with good intention -- let's assume that. 他们都看似很棒、有着良善的意图, 就让我们先这样假设。
intention:n.意图;目的;意向;愈合; assume:v.承担;假定;采取;呈现;
If you could speak with the leaders of those companies, what would you say to them? 若你能和这些公司的领导人说话, 你会对他们说什么？
CA: Well, you know what -- 克莉丝蒂安:你知道吗,
I'm sure they are incredibly well-intentioned , and they certainly developed an unbelievable , game-changing system, where everybody's connected on this thing called Facebook. 我相信他们的意图都是非常良善的, 他们确实发展出令人难以置信 并且改变游戏规则的系统, 每个人都在这个名叫 Facebook 的东西上彼此连结。
well-intentioned:adj.好意的,好心的;出于善意的; unbelievable:adj.(非正式)难以置信的;不可信的
And they've created a massive economy for themselves and an amazing amount of income. 他们为自己创造出大规模的经济、 以及惊人的收入。
economy:n.经济;节约;理财;
I would just say, "Guys, you know, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee and look at what's happening to us right now." 我只会说: 「各位,该是醒来的时候了, 闻一闻咖啡、看看现在 在我们身上发生了那些事。」
Mark Zuckerberg wants to create a global community . 马克祖克柏想要创造一个全球社群。
global:adj.全球的;总体的;球形的; community:n.社区;[生态]群落;共同体;团体;
I want to know: What is that global community going to look like? 我想要知道:这个全球社群 看起来会是什么样子？
I want to know where the codes of conduct actually are. 我想要知道行为准则到底在哪里。
Mark Zuckerberg said -- and I don't blame him, he probably believed this -- that it was crazy to think that the Russians or anybody else could be tinkering and messing around with this avenue . 马克祖克柏说── 我不怪他,他可能确实相信这点── 他说,如果认为俄国人 或是其他人可以在用这里胡搞乱弄, 那就太疯狂了。
tinkering:v.(尤指不起作用地)小修补,小修理;(tinker的现在分词) messing:v.使不整洁;弄脏;弄乱;随地便溺;(mess的现在分词) avenue:n.途径;(城镇的)大街;林荫道(尤指通往大住宅者);选择;
And what have we just learned in the last few weeks? 我们在前几周刚刚学到了什么？
That, actually, there has been a major problem in that regard, and now they're having to investigate it and figure it out. 我们得知其实那方面的问题大得很, 现在他们得要调查到底怎么一回事。
investigate:v.调查;研究;审查;
Yes, they're trying to do what they can now to prevent the rise of fake news, but, you know, it went pretty unrestricted for a long, long time. 是的,他们目前正倾力试着 防止假新闻兴起, 但你知道, 长久以来,假新闻一直未曾受限。
unrestricted:adj.自由的;无限制的;不受束缚的;
So I guess I would say, you know, you guys are brilliant at technology; let's figure out another algorithm. 所以,我想我会说, 你们在科技方面才华横溢, 咱们来想出另一个演算法,
Can we not? 行吧？
CH: An algorithm that includes journalistic investigation -- 克里斯:一个包含 新闻调查的演算法──
journalistic:adj.新闻业的,新闻工作者的;
CA: I don't really know how they do it, but somehow , you know -- filter out the crap ! 克莉丝蒂安:其实我不清楚他们 怎么做,但总要以某种方式 把狗屁都过滤掉！
somehow:adv.以某种方法;莫名其妙地; filter:n.滤波器;过滤器;滤光器;滤声器;v.过滤;渗入;(用程序)筛选;缓行; crap:n.废话;废物;屎;拉屎;vi.掷骰子;拉屎;
(Laughter) （笑声）
And not just the unintentional -- 不仅仅滤掉非蓄意的,
unintentional:adj.非故意的;无意识的;
(Applause) （掌声）
but the deliberate lies that are planted by people who've been doing this as a matter of warfare for decades. 也要滤掉刻意植入的谎言, 由数十年来习以为常 把假新闻当作战争手段的那些人 所植入的谎言。
deliberate:v.深思熟虑;仔细考虑;反复思考;adj.故意的;蓄意的;存心的;不慌不忙的; warfare:n.战争;冲突;
The Soviets , the Russians -- they are the masters of war by other means, of hybrid warfare. 苏联人、俄国人, 他们是利用另类手法 制造战争的大师,是混合战的大师。
Soviets:n.苏联人(soviet的复数);苏联政府; hybrid:n.杂种,混血儿;混合物;adj.混合的;杂种的;
And this is a -- this is what they've decided to do. 假新闻是他们决定采取的手段。
It worked in the United States, it didn't work in France, it hasn't worked in Germany. 在美国奏效了, 在法国行不通, 在德国还没有用上。
During the elections there, where they've tried to interfere , the president of France right now, Emmanuel Macron, took a very tough stand and confronted it head on, as did Angela Merkel. 选举期间,他们试图干预, 法国的现任总统埃玛纽耶尔马克宏 采取非常强硬的立场正面迎战, 安格拉梅克尔也一样。 （注:德国总理）
interfere:v.干涉;干预;介入; confronted:v.使…无法回避;降临于;处理;面对;对抗;(confront的过去分词和过去式)
CH: There's some hope to be had from some of this, isn't there? 克里斯:这当中是有些希望的吧？
That the world learns. 世界在学习。
We get fooled once, maybe we get fooled again, but maybe not the third time. 我们被骗过一次, 也许我们会再被骗一次, 但也许不会犯第三次错。
Is that true? 是这样的吗？
CA: I mean, let's hope. 克莉丝蒂安:咱们就希望如此吧。
But I think in this regard that so much of it is also about technology, that the technology has to also be given some kind of moral compass . 但我认为,在这方面 有很大一部份和科技相关, 科技也得要有某种道德罗盘。
compass:n.罗盘;指南针;圆规;范围;界限;v.理解;领悟;将…包围;成功办到
I know I'm talking nonsense , but you know what I mean. 我知道我在说废话, 但你们明白我的意思。
nonsense:n.胡说;废话;adj.荒谬的;int.胡说;
CH: We need a filter-the-crap algorithm with a moral compass -- 克里斯:我们需要一个道德罗盘 过滤狗屁的演算法。
CA: There you go. 克莉丝蒂安:你说对了。
CH: I think that's good. 克里斯:我认为那很好。
CA: No -- "moral technology." 克莉丝蒂安:不,「道德科技」。
We all have moral compasses -- moral technology. 我们都要有道德罗盘──道德科技。
compasses:n.[测]圆规;罗盘(compass的复数);v.围绕;环行(compass的三单形式);
CH: I think that's a great challenge. CA: You know what I mean. 克里斯:我认为那是个大挑战。 克莉丝蒂安:你懂我的意思。
CH: Talk just a minute about leadership. 克里斯:花一分钟谈谈领导。
You've had a chance to speak with so many people across the world. 你有和世上那么多人说话的机会。
I think for some of us -- 我认为我们当中有些人──
I speak for myself, I don't know if others feel this -- there's kind of been a disappointment of: 我代表自己发言, 不知道其他人是否有同感── 一直怀有这样的失望:
speak for:要求得到;代表…讲话;
Where are the leaders? 领导人在哪里？
So many of us have been disappointed -- 我们这么多人一直觉得失望──
Aung San Suu Kyi, what's happened recently , it's like, "No! Another one bites the dust." 翁山苏姬最近怎么搞的, 就像是:「不好！又阵亡了一个。」
recently:adv.最近;新近;
You know, it's heartbreaking . 很让人心碎。
heartbreaking:adj.令人心碎的;使人悲痛的;
(Laughter) （笑声）
Who have you met who you have been impressed by, inspired by? 你遇过谁, 你对谁印象的深刻、受到谁鼓舞呢？
impressed:adj.印象深刻; v.使钦佩; (impress的过去分词和过去式) inspired:adj.受到启发的; v.鼓舞; (inspire的过去分词和过去式)
CA: Well, you talk about the world in crisis, which is absolutely true, and those of us who spend our whole lives immersed in this crisis -- 克莉丝蒂安:你谈到 世界正处在危机当中, 这点绝对是真的, 我们这些一生埋首在危机中的人──
absolutely:adv.绝对地;完全地; immersed:adj.沉入的; v.浸没; (immerse的过去分词和过去式)
I mean, we're all on the verge of a nervous breakdown . 我是说,我们都在精神崩溃的边缘。
on the verge of:濒临于;接近于; nervous breakdown:n.神经衰弱;
So it's pretty stressful right now. 所以,现在压力很大。
stressful:adj.紧张的;有压力的;
And you're right -- there is this perceived and actual vacuum of leadership, and it's not me saying it, I ask all these -- whoever I'm talking to, I ask about leadership. 且你是对的, 我的确感受到领导的空缺状态, 实际上也是如此, 且不只是我这样说,我问了所有 与我对话过的人关于领导。
perceived:v.注意到;意识到;将…视为;认为;(perceive的过去式和过去分词) vacuum:n.真空; adj.真空的; v.用真空吸尘器清扫; whoever:任何人:无论是谁:
I was speaking to the outgoing president of Liberia today, 我今天在和赖比瑞亚 即将离职的总统谈话,
Liberia:n.利比里亚(西非国家);
[Ellen Johnson Sirleaf,] 艾伦强森瑟利夫,
who -- 她
(Applause) （掌声）
in three weeks' time, will be one of the very rare heads of an African country who actually abides by the constitution and gives up power after her prescribed term. 在三周后, 她将会成为非常少数真正遵循宪法, 在规定任期结束后 就交出权力的非洲国家领袖之一。
abides:vt.忍受,容忍;停留;vi.持续;忍受;停留; constitution:n.宪法;构成;体质;组成; prescribed:v.给…开(药); (prescribe的过去式和过去分词)
She has said she wants to do that as a lesson. 她说她想要那么做,教大家一课。
But when I asked her about leadership, and I gave a quick-fire round of certain names, 但当我向她问到领导时, 我快速丢给她一堆名字,
I presented her with the name of the new French president, 我提到新法国总统的名字,
Emmanuel Macron. 埃玛纽耶尔马克宏。
And she said -- 她说──
I said, "So what do you think when I say his name?" 我问:「你觉得他如何？」
And she said, "Shaping up potentially to be a leader to fill our current leadership vacuum." 她说: 「有潜力能够成为 填补目前领导真空的领袖。」
potentially:adv.可能地,潜在地;
I thought that was really interesting. 我觉得那十分有趣。
Yesterday, I happened to have an interview with him. 正巧昨天我刚访问马克宏。
interview:n.接见,采访;面试,面谈;v.采访;接见;对…进行面谈;
I'm very proud to say, 我能很骄傲地说,
I got his first international interview. It was great. It was yesterday. 我得到他的首次国际访谈。 很顺利。那是昨天的事。
And I was really impressed. 我的印象非常深刻。
I don't know whether I should be saying that in an open forum , but I was really impressed. 不知道我是否该在 公开的论坛中这样说, 但我印象非常深刻。
forum:n.论坛,讨论会;法庭;公开讨论的广场;
(Laughter) （笑声）
And it could be just because it was his first interview, but -- I asked questions, and you know what? 可能只因为那是他的首次访谈, 但我问了问题,你们知道怎样吗？
He answered them! 他回答了问题！
(Laughter) （笑声）
(Applause) （掌声）
There was no spin , there was no wiggle and waggle , there was no spend-five-minutes- to-come-back-to-the-point. 没绕圈圈, 没闪避, 没花五分钟才回到重点。
spin:v.旋转;纺纱;吐丝;纺线;n.头晕;(快速)旋转;常用于英式英语;晕头转向; wiggle:v.扭动;摆动,起伏;n.摆动,摇动,起伏; waggle:vi.摇摆;不停地来回摇动;vt.摆动;来回摇动;n.摇摆;摆动;
I didn't have to keep interrupting , which I've become rather renowned for doing, because I want people to answer the question. 不需要我一直打断, 我以访谈时打断对方而闻名, 因为想要他们回答我的问题。
interrupting:v.插嘴;打扰;打岔;使暂停;使中断;阻断,遮挡;(interrupt的现在分词) renowned:adj.著名的;闻名的;有名的;受尊敬的
And he answered me, and it was pretty interesting. 他回答了我, 那十分有趣。
And he said -- 他说──
CH: Tell me what he said. 克里斯:告诉我他说了什么。
CA: No, no, you go ahead. 克莉丝蒂安:不,不,你先说。
CH: You're the interrupter , I'm the listener. 克里斯:你是打断专家,我是听众。
interrupter:n.打断者,阻碍者;[电]断续器,断流器;
CA: No, no, go ahead. 克莉丝蒂安:不,不,请说。
CH: What'd he say? 克里斯:他说了什么？
CA: OK. You've talked about nationalism and tribalism here today. 克莉丝蒂安:好,今天在这里谈到 民族主义和对部族的忠诚。
nationalism:n.民族主义;国家主义;民族特性; tribalism:n.部落文化;部落制;部落制度;
I asked him, "How did you have the guts to confront the prevailing winds of anti-globalization, nationalism, populism when you can see what happened in Brexit , 我问他:「你怎么有胆子去对抗 反全球化、民族主义、 民粹主义的主流趋势,特别是 当你看到英国脱欧发生的情况,
have the guts:有勇气; prevailing:adj.流行的;一般的;占优势的;v.盛行,流行;获胜;(prevail的现在分词形式) populism:n.民粹主义,平民主义; Brexit:英国退出欧盟;
when you could see what happened in the United States and what might have happened in many European elections at the beginning of 2017?" 当你看到在美国发生的状况, 以及 2017 年初许多欧洲选举 本来可能发生的状况呢？」
at the beginning of:在…的开始;
And he said, "For me, nationalism means war. 而他说: 「对我来说,民族主义意味着战争。
We have seen it before, we have lived through it before on my continent , and I am very clear about that." 我们以前就看过了, 我们以前在欧陆经历过了, 而我非常清楚这一点。」
continent:n.大陆,洲,陆地;adj.自制的,克制的;
So he was not going to, just for political expediency , embrace the, kind of, lowest common denominator that had been embraced in other political elections. 所以他并不只求政治的眼前利益, 像是拥抱最小共同点, 其他的政治选举都会去 拥抱最小共同点。
expediency:n.方便,权宜;私利; denominator:n.[数]分母;命名者;共同特征或共同性质;平均水平或标准; embraced:v.拥抱;欣然接受,乐意采纳;信奉;包含;(embrace的过去分词和过去式)
And he stood against Marine Le Pen, who is a very dangerous woman. 而他对抗玛琳勒朋, 玛琳勒朋是个很危险的女人。
Marine:adj.海的;海产的;海生的;海船的;n.(尤指美国或英国皇家)海军陆战队士兵;
CH: Last question for you, Christiane. 克里斯:克莉丝蒂安,最后一个问题。
Tell us about ideas worth spreading. 和我们谈谈值得散播的想法。
If you could plant one idea into the minds of everyone here, what would that be? 如果你能在这里的每个人 脑中植入一个想法, 会是什么？
CA: I would say really be careful where you get your information from; really take responsibility for what you read, listen to and watch; make sure that you go to the trusted brands to get your main information, 克莉丝蒂安:我会说, 要非常留意你的资讯来自何处; 要对你所读到、听到、 看到的资讯主动负责; 确保你的主要资讯必须是从 可信任的品牌那儿取得的,
brands:n.品牌;烙印(brand的复数);v.加商标于;铭刻于(brand的第三人称单数);
no matter whether you have a wide, eclectic intake , really stick with the brand names that you know, because in this world right now, at this moment right now, 不论资讯的来源 有多么广泛或是多么多样化, 一定要守住你认识的品牌, 因为在这个世界中,在目前这时刻,
eclectic:adj.折衷的;选择的;折衷学派的;n.折衷派的人;折衷主义者;adj.不拘一格的; intake:n.摄取量;通风口;引入口;引入的量;
our crises , our challenges, our problems are so severe , that unless we are all engaged as global citizens who appreciate the truth, who understand science, empirical evidence and facts, 我们的危机、我们的挑战、 我们的问题,都非常严重, 除非我们都能以 全球市民的身份来参与, 能够意识到真相, 能够了解科学、实证证据与事实,
crises:n.危机,紧要关头;危险期(crisis的复数形式); severe:adj.极为恶劣的;十分严重的;严厉的;苛刻的; engaged:adj.已订婚的; v.吸引住; (engage的过去分词和过去式) appreciate:v.欣赏;感激;感谢;理解;
then we are just simply going to be wandering along to a potential catastrophe . 不然我们就只会离开正道, 走向潜在的大灾难。
catastrophe:n.大灾难;大祸;惨败;
So I would say, the truth, and then I would come back to Emmanuel Macron and talk about love. 所以我会说「真相」, 接着我会回到埃玛纽耶尔马克宏, 并且谈「爱」。
I would say that there's not enough love going around. 我会说,还没有足够的爱。
And I asked him to tell me about love. 我请他和我谈谈爱。
I said, "You know, your marriage is the subject of global obsession ." 我说:「你的婚姻 是全球都很迷恋的目标。」
obsession:n.痴迷;困扰;[内科][心理]强迫观念;
(Laughter) （笑声）
'"Can you tell me about love? 「你能跟我谈谈爱吗？
What does it mean to you?" 对你而言爱是什么？」
I've never asked a president or an elected leader about love. 我从未请总统或民选领袖 跟我谈论爱这议题,
I thought I'd try it. 我想试一试。
And he said -- you know, he actually answered it. 而他──你们知道吗, 他真的回答了。
And he said, "I love my wife, she is part of me, we've been together for decades." 他说:「我爱我太太, 她是我的一部份, 我们在一起数十年了。」
But here's where it really counted, what really stuck with me. 但真正重要, 真正让我难忘的是
He said, "It is so important for me to have somebody at home who tells me the truth." 他说: 「对我来说,家里 有个人能告诉我真相 是非常重要的事。」
So you see, I brought it home. It's all about the truth. 看,我把话带回到主题了, 重点就是真相。
(Laughter) （笑声）
CH: So there you go. Truth and love. Ideas worth spreading. 克里斯:有你的。真相和爱。 值得散播的想法。
Christiane Amanpour, thank you so much. That was great. 克莉丝蒂安艾曼普, 非常谢谢你。很棒的访谈。
(Applause) （掌声）
CA: Thank you. CH: That was really lovely. 克莉丝蒂安:谢谢您。 克里斯:访谈非常愉快。
(Applause) （掌声）
CA: Thank you. 克莉丝蒂安:谢谢。